Tetsu Yung: Raising Children in 5 Languages

On this show, you'll hear incredible stories from amazing language learners who've learned five to 10, even 30 plus languages, as well as industry experts who help shape modern language learning through innovation and research. As we dive into language learning methods, techniques, and apps, you'll quickly discover what works and what doesn't. This is the actual fluency podcast and this is Kris Broholm.

Today I'm joined by my good friend, Tetsuya Young, who is one of the organizers of Langfest, a, uh, annual language learning conference. Usually it took place in Montreal, Canada, but uh, recently has moved to, uh, Mexico for the next version of it. I'm not sure if they're gonna go back to Montreal or not, but we do get a little chance to talk about Langfest at the end of this episode, so do stay around if you're interested.

As always, I I love these conferences and to me they're they're great fun and a good way to meet like-minded people, exchange ideas, and of course, practice your languages. You know, you never find such a linguistic diversity in in one place as when the, uh, Polyglot Conference or the, uh, Polyglot Gathering or the Polyglot Cruise that I'm organizing are in sort of the same place.

But today's topic is actually a little bit different. We're gonna go back to and revisit a topic we talked about many, many years ago, four years ago to be exact, uh, when Tetsuya was last on the podcast. And uh, Tetsuya is a person who impressed me greatly with his commitment to teaching his children languages.

And there's a question I see asked a lot, like, how do you actually teach your children languages? That maybe it's a heritage language or it's, uh, your second languages or your own first language when you live in a country that doesn't speak that as a first language or any other language, really. I mean, there there aren't really any limitations.

And I had the chance to go and meet Tetsuya's family in, uh, Montreal, Canada and saw it firsthand how the kids were speaking and understanding, you know, five different languages. And, uh, so I had him on the show originally to talk about how that was going. At the time the kids were very young. Uh, I think it was about maybe one and two, maybe, one and three. Definitely very young. Um, maybe a little bit older, actually. Let me correct that. They were slightly older. But, um, very young, so it was a little bit unclear as to how it's gonna look.

But then, of course, the kids have grown now and they're doing better than ever in their multilingual, uh, expressions. They understand all the languages and they're doing really well. And most importantly, they're having a lot of fun with it, which I think is important.

But anyway, I thought the time was right to bring Tetsuya back and do a little refresher on the multilingual, uh, children. How do how do you do it? What's the kind of method? And he advocates very strongly for one method. So stay tuned to hear how that works out. And, uh, we kind of go over what's changed since the kids have grown. And, uh, I hope you enjoy it.

It's it's important, it's a really important topic and it's a really, I think, it's a big gift you can give as a parent is definitely the gift of multilingualism if you have the opportunity, if you have the, um, basically the energy. I think it's very time consuming. It's definitely a a big kind of pressure.

And obviously there are there are some push to go the other way. For instance, when families emigrate to other places, there's kind of a sometimes the native language is a little bit looked down on. It's like, you know, foreign in a way. It's easier to fit in if you speak like the main language of the country you've arrived at. And so parents sometimes, uh, think they're doing kids a favor by not speaking the heritage language at home, uh, because they feel like if they if the kids hear multiple languages, they're just gonna get confused and not be able to speak, uh, let's say, English if they're in America or something like that as well.

And they also might fear that the kids get, you know, bullied or fall behind or there are lots of different reasons. Uh, but actually most of those are myths and kids don't really get confused with that, you know.

So listen to what Tetsuya has to say and his stories about teaching his kids five different languages, which I think is amazing. And, uh, I hope it inspires some parents out there or parents to be to, uh, do something similar for their kids.

So enjoy this episode 175 of the Actual Fluency Podcast and I'll see you in the next one.

And, uh, what I talk about is how I raise my kids. Uh, so I am half Japanese, half Taiwanese, and I raise my kids in five languages. So that's Mandarin, Japanese, English, French, and Spanish.

Now, English and French because we live in Quebec, Canada. So they go to school in French and, uh, and we have a lot of input in, uh, English. And Spanish is something is really the only one of the five languages that we've introduced artificially, uh, through, uh, through hiring nannies from other countries.

So, in a nutshell, that's that's what we do. How do you wanna, uh, to develop on this on this, uh, topic? Yeah, what?

I'm uh, I I know that the data does not suggest that it will cause confusion in kids. But, uh, obviously, like I said, it's a strategy. Now, for us, we're firm believers that kids can learn multiple languages at the same time.

And more importantly, we're firm believers that we have to do this early. Like, how early is like, for me, it's from day one or even before that. I I've been talking to my wife's tummy, uh, since since since my first son was, uh, you know, since she was pregnant with our first child. And this is really our strategy, you know, very strictly we have we we do what is called OPOL. So we follow this religiously. So it's O P O L. It's one person, one language. Some people call it one parent, one language. But in our case, we have, uh, five languages. So, kind of overruns the the number of parents. So, so the concept is very simple. Uh, the execution is very, uh, you know, requires a lot of discipline, but the concept is simple. One person, you know, speaks one language exclusively with the child with the children.

So we have four kids. I just had my fourth one during the pandemic. Yeah. My fourth child was born in Nagasaki on April 10th and, uh, I have not seen her yet. The family's coming back in August. So, so I'm here in Quebec because my parents are here. So, once this this pandemic started, I shipped them all to Japan because it was, uh, quite, uh, you know, we we spent some time in in Asia every year. So we just sent them earlier this year and they've been there since, uh, March 19th. They'll come back in August. So I will not have seen my family for five months when they come back and my daughter will be four months when I first hold her.

Anyways, went off on a little tangent there. Uh, but, yeah. But like I said, I speak Mandarin exclusively with the kids. My wife is Japanese. She speaks Japanese exclusively with the kids. It's her it's her mother tongue. So, you know, it works out well. Uh, we live in Quebec. So, French is the official language in this province. They go to school in French, you know, once we leave the house, most of the people are francophones. Uh, but we do have, uh, a lot of English input also. So, I go out of my way to find, for example, skating coaches who speak English or or horseback riding coach for my daughter, who are who who's an Anglophone. And I specifically request them to speak only English with her with the kids rather than French. Uh, things like that. So that that allows me to add add the the English dimension.

And, uh, I mentioned earlier, we hire, uh, au pairs. So these are live-in nannies from Mexico. They come to our home and they live with us for anywhere from six to 18 months. I think the longest we've had was 16 months or so. Um, and and yeah, they they they're with us. They they're here for exchange, you know, like a cultural exchange. And and, uh, they they in exchange they take care of the kids and I ask them to speak exclusively in Spanish and I help them in English. Most of the time, that's what they want. So that's that covers five languages.

Like, for example, with my kids, they always speak Mandarin with me because they don't know otherwise. And if they were to speak a different language with me, it would feel very weird. It would feel like it's a, you know, a special occasion. Uh, so, 'cause whenever I talk about the our strategy, the OPOL strategy, people go, "But don't they, you know, don't your kids see you speaking other languages to other people?" I I always tell, "Yes, that that's not, you know, it's it's irrelevant. What's important is the language that you speak with your kids and that habit that you have built, uh, speaking that specific language with your children."

And also, uh, I'd like to mention that I bring the kids, uh, well, the wife and the kids and the au pair to, uh, Japan every spring. So we're talking end of April to about end of June. And then I bring the kids over to Taiwan, uh, from for July and August. Uh, so in Japan, they go to local Japanese school, their Japanese gets strengthened, uh, significantly over those two months.

And then we go to Taiwan, they go to Taiwanese local school or camp and and then their language gets significantly strengthened during those two months. And then we come back to Quebec and then we start the cycle again. They go to their, you know, normal school here in French and they have their English input and. So, so this is, uh, another thing that we do that allows the environment to favor, you know, Japanese, like, you know, being in Japan 24/7 for for two months. Uh, and in Taiwan being with Mandarin for, you know, 24/7 for two months. Yeah.

Except this year. Except this year they're they've been in Japan. And we can't go to Taiwan. Yeah. So this year, they're I I see that my third child, uh, with two months, uh, in Japan, uh, three months now, uh, that he had forgotten quite a bit of Mandarin, uh, even though I talk to him, you know, on on on on Facebook Messenger. It's I I see it, you know, deteriorating. So, for last month we've hired a Taiwanese nanny. We, you know, very lucky we were able to find a Taiwanese nanny, uh, who comes in every day for about a an hour or two. And immediately you see a lot of his vocabulary is coming back and so. That's the best we can do this year for for Mandarin since we can't go to Taiwan.

I left Taiwan right after elementary school and I had not spoken Mandarin for a whole 17 years without speaking any Mandarin because I had nobody to speak Mandarin to, uh, who was in Canada. I only picked it back up when I went to Japan to work in, uh, 2003. After 17 years. But it was there. I was a little rusty for the first few days. But I was right back to my 13-year-old, uh, level of Mandarin within, you know, a few days.

And and so that tells me that languages that you acquire when you're very young, you know, I I'm I'm using the specific word acquired from, you know, acquisition, um, the the Crashin theories. Uh, compared to learning languages, which is, you know, more of a cerebral, intellectual activity. Uh, so I I'm really aiming for this, you know, my kids to be exposed to to these languages at least, you know, extensively until age 12, hopefully.

Uh, minimum age 10. And that's when I'll start to I I guess let it go a little bit more, uh, with life, you know, happening, getting busier and busier for these kids.

Uh, whereas if you've been exposed to these languages up to about 12 years old, it's there. It's it's it's like written into the hard drive, you know. Um, so so that's that's what I'm aiming for. So we need to keep it up until at least 10, if not 12 years old, is is my aim.

Now, but if we develop on that a little bit is that, uh, there are individual differences in terms of development pace. Um, my first son was very quick. Now, even though I say very quick, it's like relatively speaking, within our family, he was the fastest. But he only started really picking up vocabulary and talking around 19 or 20 months or so. Now, I know early kids start talking at around one year old. Like, they they've got, you know, many words. Uh, my son was saying I guess sounds, producing sounds and like pointing at things. Uh, uh, at one or, you know, 15 months or so, but he really started saying things. Uh, around I think 19 or 20 months or so.

And and then it took off. So, that was the fastest in our kids. My daughter, on the other hand, was a good six to eight months slower than than my son. Uh, in in terms of developing her vocabulary and and and but but it still works. Uh, there are, you know, individual differences. A lot of people say girls pick it up faster than boys, but it was the opposite in our case. And then our third child was sort of in between. Uh, he wasn't as slow as, uh, my daughter, but, uh, he was slower than my first son.

So, these differences, you know, over a lifetime is negligible. Right. We were a little concerned with with the daughter since since, uh, I think she was about 27 or 28 months and still not saying a lot of words. Um, and we did take her to a speech therapist, uh, to to, you know, just to make sure there's no like physiological impediments. Uh, and, uh, the speech therapist just, you know, said the most obvious thing that anybody can say. It's like, oh, it's because she's learning so many languages. And I'm not a specialist in those languages. So I cannot, you know, okay.

Well, but the good news is, like, literally, two, three weeks after that, her vocabulary started exploding. I mean, that was, uh, you know, amazing to see. So, it's it's, you know, it it just it comes. Well, with time, you just have to have faith. Um, you know, I've heard that Albert Einstein only started, you know, beginning to talk around four years old or something like that. So, you know.

A big shout out to Optilingo for sponsoring the Actual Fluency Podcast here in 2020. Optilingo is a language learning app that features a method known as guided immersion to teach your over 18 languages at the time of recording this segment. And it focuses a lot about speaking and repeating and listening, of course, to get your pronunciation just right. It doesn't bother about grammar, it doesn't bother about long explanations of syntax and mythology or any kind of complicated concepts that kind of hold you back from speaking better.

And, um, you can get a free lesson right now if you go to Optilingo.com. That's O P T I L I N G O .com, Optilingo. And, uh, if you do decide to subscribe for the full version of each language, like I said, there are 18, there are more than 18 actually available. Um, it's only five bucks a month. So it's extremely affordable as well for the for the full package.

But I'm just really happy that they are part of the podcast here in 2020 and it's run by my good friend, Jonty, who kind of stumbled upon the method that the app teaches when he was trying to learn his own heritage language of Caucasian, of which there is, uh, not a lot of, uh, resources out there for. So, thank you so much to Jonty and Optilingo. I hope you give it a try and, uh, let's get back to the action.

Um, like Japanese is also, you know, a very homogeneous population, a very monolingual, uh, country. Um, so I I do see some parents who, you know, stress that you have to first learn Japanese well and you shouldn't go on to English or other languages before your kid can speak Japanese well. I mean, it's it's hard to define what well is, you know. But that's the problem.

Yeah. I I do think you're you're right in that maybe these folks who are monolinguals, they sort of cast their own limitations on their kids. And and think that, you know, if if they have difficulty learning languages, then it must be a super burden on the kids. Um.

But I think that also comes with being a a relatively smaller country that you're kind of relying on the culture of of other countries and obviously Hollywood movies and TV shows and video games and they don't produce those in all of those in Danish. So you kind of forced to do it in in a way.

But if you imagine just, you know, being in a in an English speaking country and everything is in English, you know, you know, there's no pressure to to improve and and so most people don't. Uh, which is kind of a shame because there's a lot of languages. If you take the US, for example, every city has like, you know, a lot of languages in them. A lot of minority communities where you could really improve the lives of of yourself and and the people around you if you if you learned a little bit of the the local language. But I guess the the history is just not there. The

But then you have countries like I I'm not really too strong on this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but countries like India where you have so many local variation dialects that it's normal for people to and in Africa, I've heard as well that people speak a lot of languages on average. So, the idea of speaking only one language would probably be as foreign to them.

Um, I I do know that there's a there's a lot of parents who, you know, like you said, they they they're struggling with, you know, their their kids learning just a second language and you know, they they run out of ideas, you know, other than TVs and and books and apps and um, but I always I always, you know, try to get them to strategize about really, you know, how to go about it. Not not sort of randomly just picking up tips and and stuff. Uh, really cool.

Then comes down the question of your your, uh, abilities. Like you were saying, if you speak this target language, then you have more options. Uh, but if you don't, then what do you need to do? Do you bring in somebody to replace you? Like an au pair, an exchange student, a nanny, uh, uh, a family member, you know, bring in grandma to live with you guys. You know. Different ideas. Or do you want to move to another country? You know, it's it's it's easier said than done for a lot of countries in the world. But in Europe, I mean, it's it's it's easier, I think, than a Japanese leaving Japan and going to the states, for example. Uh, right?

So it depends on So there's there's different strategies and what you're ready to commit to. But what I see often, uh, is that they sort of expect a lot more than what they're willing to put in. And there's like a discrepancy between, you know, their expectation and and the actual outcome given the input that they put in. You know, that that's unfortunate. You know, people people think it's, you know, how do I say? Uh, they they're more enthusiastic, uh, about their efforts than you know, they they realize that a lot of this is takes a lot more discipline. And and smartness. I think you need to really analyze the situation well and and rather than just going in blindly.

Uh, you know, if I were to do all five languages myself, rather than rely on other people, uh, or even even for Spanish, you know, if I were to teach some Spanish by myself, rather than bring in an au pair and and save that money, uh, now I spend it in time instead. What what can I expect as outcome and and and the risks, too, of of these, uh, these these strategies?

Like I I am really religious about one person, one language and to build this habit of speaking one language with the kids because because I am I am very afraid that if I switch around with them, they're gonna pick just the one language that they're most comfortable in and start refusing to to speak in the other target languages. So I don't want that. I want it I want them to feel weird to speak any other language than Mandarin with me.

But that's what I have heard. Now, if it's 20, 25%, then I'm, you know, at at five, I'm at the limit. You know, and intuitively, one would think that, I mean, obviously, you only you're only awake for a certain number of hours, especially kids, uh, you know, two-year-olds, they they sleep like more than half the day. So, so you have to use those hours, you know, wisely.

And I I do think that four, uh, four to five would be like the the limit if you want to get to a very high level. Like by high, I mean, be able to work in that language. Uh, by high, I mean, being able to, you know, make good friends, like, you know, real friends, not acquaintances and talk about very complex ideas, you know, philosophy, you know, opinions. Yes. So then, you know, not necessarily like to become an interpreter, you know, not like a language specialist way, but as a as using the tool for the language as a communication tool without any obstacles. Uh, that's that's sort of what I want the kids to be able to do with the languages that we're getting them to do.

But yeah, I just wanted to put that in there because I really think that language learning, you know, there's a lot of people who are obviously, I would call them almost linguists, you know, they're obsessed about, uh, you know, all these grammatical structures and history of languages and stuff. And of course, they have a natural interest in going to these events, but I would say the vast majority of people are people who discover that languages are a great gateway to not only meeting other people, new cultures, but I think personal development and going on a journey of self-improvement and rediscovering a purpose in a way because we all love certain elements certain global elements. Like you might be the biggest pizza lover in the world or sushi your thing. And you you what how would it feel like if you went to Japan and ordered your favorite sushi set or whatever they call it. I'm not a big sushi eater myself in Japanese and and see the reaction of of a native speaker hearing somebody else speaking their language as an as an L2 or L3 or whatever. And and that can sort of become and I think the effort to do that is is not very much. Like, yeah, it's consistent effort, but it's not like you're rediscovering, you know, quantum physics or anything. You know, the steps are quite you've learned a language before, at least one. So the the foundation is in you. You know what a verb is, you know what a noun is, you you know, even though you might not be able to explain all of them, inherently you know.

And so I just think that languages, that's why I picked it, you know, I've I've told people the story a few times that when I was at the Polyglot Gathering in 2014 in Berlin, I I saw a Facebook post about it by Judit Maer, who who started it. And I I really didn't. Obviously, I had a few languages from Denmark just randomly. It wasn't because I was too keen on it. I I I liked languages in school, but I didn't sit at home outside the school and and learn languages. But I went to that one event and the people I met there just, they sealed the deal for me because they were so nice, so welcoming, like we said. And that became sort of a purpose for me. Like I wanna learn more languages, I wanna spread the multilingual message across the world because I think it also it also makes understanding better. It makes communities, uh, bond better. And for from a personal level. You know, as someone who you know, even absorbing passively the culture and and different ways of thinking and that can only make you, you know, more open-minded and, uh, more understanding and more inclusive.

Absolutely. And the personal development, you know, it's like if you're struggling for something like a purpose or you don't know what to do with your life, I think languages are a great way to get started because they open doors to so much. Like if you learn a second language and you have, let's say, you're Dutch and you learn Swedish, the job opportunities you can get are just, you know, so unusual that people do that that you can just get any job you want or you can do translation, whatever. And you can travel the world and you can you can really feel a sense of purpose. Like, you know, you like you do with the the parenting and multilingualism. I do it with more sort of general language learning that, you know, I'm my kind of purpose is to share that message and show stories of people who have have learned languages in order to inspire others. But I would never have done that if I hadn't gone to that first event. Yeah. For sure. Like 100%. Because that inspired me to do that and the people I met there inspired me to do that. So, for anyone listening, go to the go to the events. The first time we met was at the New York event, right?