Peter Strang: From the UK to Russia

Welcome to the Actual Fluency Podcast with Kris Broholm. This show will inspire, motivate, and teach you how to learn foreign languages the best way. On this show, you'll hear incredible stories from amazing language learners who've learned five to ten, even 30+ languages, as well as industry experts who help shape modern language learning through innovation and research. As we dive into language learning methods, techniques and apps, you'll quickly discover what works and what doesn't. This is the Actual Fluency Podcast and this is Kris Broholm.

Yeah, thanks for for inviting me on the show, Kris. And just a little about me. So I'll go way back to the start. And I was studying at university at University of Glasgow in Scotland. That's where I'm from. And I was studying English. I was also studying uh, English literature that is, and uh, classics. Uh, classics, it's the study of Greek and Roman civilization.

Sure. Very nice. I mean, that's a talk about a a little stroke of uh randomness deciding your kind of entire future, anyway.

Yeah, yeah. Um, well, at the time I I didn't, you know, I I think I was working in an office and a and a shop in the UK. Um, and it was just I I I knew I wanted to do something more. And I thought, why not? That that chance is there, you know, you might as well make your mistakes when you're young. And Russian so far has not been a mistake. Um, and I went and did it and I think it was it was a good decision at the time and I'm really glad I made it so far.

Yeah, and we'll get into uh, a little bit later in your story as well here how uh, how it went. But um, I think I think they're looking for Russians to recruit you for the secret service or something because when I looked at uh, language careers in in Denmark, they were always looking for people who spoke Russian or Arabic. Those were the two like mega in-demand. If you had any of these language skills, then you could join like, you know, MI whatever the Danish equivalent is overnight. Or you could become like a a language officer. So maybe that's just some kind of secret test that they're actually meaning to recruit you to some underground government facility, but you somehow got through the cracks.

Yeah, perhaps. Um, I'm I'm not sure if I would have made the best intelligence officer but um, I I'm still waiting on the call anyway.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe they saw the test results or something. They're like, uh, okay, we'll we'll skip that. Yeah. I don't know. But um, yeah, so tell us about like the kind of language learning aspect. Obviously Russian, very tricky language for English speakers to learn. Lots of um, lots of new kind of especially grammar, there's a lot of new grammar points, a lot of new inflections, a lot of new cases as well to master. So in just a year, how did you how did you get along?

So, it's hard it's hard to um to to describe I I went from zero to something in a year. I don't know what that something was. Maybe it was around I I I honestly that that year I I used to feel very very arrogant and I thought I was so good at Russian until I went. And then I was like, okay, well maybe I was one of the one of the better guys in the class, but but that doesn't mean I'm fluent. So I guess I was probably around maybe a pre-intermediate level-ish.

Yeah. I think that's why I I often in the past I used to always skip chapter one, you know, the pronunciation chapter, whenever I went to a new book or a new course or something. It's like, oh, I'll figure that one out later. But I realized that pronunciation isn't just about how you say things, it's also about how you hear things. And if you put in if you put in that effort in the beginning, then you have a better chance. Of course, there'll always be words that that we say differently to native speakers or, you know, slightly uh, you have that unconscious incompetence where you don't even know that you're making the mistake. You can't hear it. Can't hear the difference. And I I did the same with Russian. I was like getting my tutor to repeat especially the, I don't know if this is the same for English native speakers, but for me, the S sounds and the different S H sounds were just they were just blending together as one for me. And I was I couldn't separate them.

Um, me too. I I to be honest, I I don't think I even separate them very well. I I I just came up with this trick that worked for me and no one ever said that was wrong, but it probably is. Is with the kind of one of the S's it was like shh and the other one I just held it a bit longer. I went shh.

Yeah.

And for me that was right, but I I don't know if that's right at all, but I was understood. So it was good enough for me.

Yeah, well, I mean that I think that's the definition anyway. I mean, that's they they try to the transliteration something like S H for one of them and then S H S H for the other one. So you're probably on to something there. But um, for the for Danish native speaker, the voiced S is also tricky. We don't have uh, any no Danish word has a voiced S. So you don't you'd only hear them in loanwords. And if a Danish person is saying a loanword to another Danish person, they wouldn't voice the S anyway. Um, so for instance, uh, like, you know, where the animals are kept.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

You'd say something like, you know, I I don't I don't know which one's going to come out now because I'm very conscious of of it, but I would say something like "soo".

Yeah, yeah.

You know, that that's that's not quite voiced S as far as I can hear anyway. Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, so when you're in Russian have multiple S sounds and multiple voiced or unvoiced versions, then that's just a nightmare for for me anyway. So I totally have that sympathy for you for uh, for the pronunciation aspects and and anyone learning Russian, I can only recommend people just, you know, really focus on that, really get a tutor to give you feedback early on, preferably so you don't make any bad habits.

Yes, yes. I I think everyone in all the language books, the pronunciation section, it's just the most boring parts. It's just you see the the phones and it's always you always see them. It's like you have the the like a sound and it's like a like farther. And uh, and and sometimes it doesn't always uh correlate exactly. Uh, if if you understand what I mean.

Oh no, not at all, no. It's like an approximation.

Uh huh.

And uh, I remember Gabriel Wyner's book Fluent Forever it stuck with me for so long, but he was like basically going on a rant against text-based pronunciation advice, you know, where where they would say something like, you know, "bonjour" would be "bonjour" in if you had to actually write it out the text. Um, so he went on this massive rant about that and I I don't think it's very productive to learn pronunciation from text anyway. You know, something like Assimil is a big um, they do this a lot where instead of yeah, they sort of approximate what it would sound like and I just get more confused than than ever because it's like reading a whole new language when you just read the sounds of the language you're learning. Like, you need the audio, that's the only thing. It's the only way you can learn, I I feel like.

Yeah, yeah. And and I know as a as a teacher myself, I actually don't really like teaching pronunciation. Uh, I I and when I do, it's always in like a a small slot. And usually what what I'll do is, okay, we'll look at a few sounds but let's it's more productive I find to actually use those sounds in a sentence that you might say.

Yeah.

Rather than just learning a series of disconnected sounds.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's uh context for me has always been king. Whenever I learned out of context, it was always just, yeah, I learned individual words, but I couldn't really speak with them. So what was the point? Like, you know, you're not going to a spelling bee. Uh, I don't think so. Uh, so, you know, just being able to recite words and and for me it was just a waste of time really. But a lot of people do that because they get hooked on apps like Memrise Anki or similar apps where you just learn like a bunch of words and there's no connection, no context. And that goes for pronunciation too, I feel like.

So moving on with the I was going to say about

Oh, sorry. I was just going to say about Memrise, I'm I'm a lapsed Memrise user. Uh, but but back back when I was learning Russian at the university, I was Memrise was almost every day. I had a huge streak going. I was doing one course that taught 5,000 Russian words. And to my shame, it's still incomplete. I still got about 100, not a few hundred to learn. And every every few months, I'll go back to it like, right, this is the time. I'm going to master all these words. I'm going to learn all the new ones and finish this course. And that'll last for about a day or two. Uh, but maybe one day.

Yeah.

This is the year. This is the year.

I'm the same. I I even did an experiment to see how many words I could do on Memrise in Russian in a month. And I feel like the problem is that and I I wrote about this on the blog before that spaced repetition is amazing, but it can also be a you can really sabotage yourself because if you add 100 words today, then those words are going to be, you know, reviewable at the same time tomorrow. Or whatever the algorithm says. Uh, so basically, the more time you pour into it now, you're basically outsourcing the work to your future self. Yes. So the so so you get that message saying, oh, uh, you did well yesterday. Come and review your 2,753 words that you haven't seen in a while. And it's just so overwhelming that I just kind of burned out and I never went back. I think I got to about 1,000 words. And then I just couldn't keep up. It was just it would take me, I think, you know, I think it would take me at least two or three hours of focused flashcarding to constantly review all the things that I have learned. And that was only about 1,000 cards.

Yeah, yeah. And it's also like, for as good as the website is and I do think it's quite a good website. I mean, just typing out words is a bit of a chore, a bit of a grind. Especially when you get into the hundreds and when you get punished if you make, you know, one slight mistake.

Oh, yeah, spelling mistake, yeah. Try to spell like agricultural in Russian, yeah, good luck.

Oh, yeah.

This is a nightmare. Uh, for some reason, I learned that word now, so I mean, I guess I can use it if I ever write something about agricultural in Russian. But I guess the the other problem is that learning individual words if the language is similar, like uh, let's say uh, an English speaker learning French or Italian or Spanish. The individual words might have a big effect because there aren't that many grammar differences like you don't inflect the words. But in Russian, I felt like learning the individual words was just it's almost a waste of time because they never show up in their like book form anyway.

Or

Or at least very rarely in in their kind of dictionary form. Um, so it's much better to learn.

One one thing that's interesting about the like the top 5,000 words course is um, a lot of words in it, well, not a lot, but a few, they're like words that are first in the Soviet Union that you would in modern speech never use. So like a few words like referring to like political committees and uh, certain concepts or even words maybe like comrade, it is used, but not so often and you don't just go down the street and say, hey comrade.

Right.

So so even though they're like the in this kind of top 5,000 words or so, I think you could go a long time in Russia without needing these words specifically.

Yeah, and and also just not I mean not not to make this entire episode about the downsides of flashcards, but if you have 5,000 words, then, you know, the 3,000 of them are going to be words you use like once a week or less. So you get the 2,000 words will give you like 95% coverage of the language. So the you're really spending, you know, you're probably spending longer because the last 3,000 are probably longer words that probably, you know, more complicated. Um, so you're spending a ridiculous amount of time on words that you may or may not use like once a week or less. And like some of the words that I learned was like I said, agricultural, like I don't remember ever using agricultural in English except to explain that I was learning the word in Russian. So, you know,

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Um, so yeah, a little bit about English teaching abroad. I mean, there's it's quite well known like the the top certificate everyone all employers want and value. It's called like the Cambridge CELTA for teaching English. Uh, but there are other ones you can get and I and I don't have a CELTA. I have like a it's called like a TEFL, uh, course 120 hours. Uh, that includes some some of it was online and some of it is we had to go to like a kind of uh, workshop weekend to to practice in front of my staff.

And what kind of things did you learn just give us a little idea of, you know, what what does it mean to take one of these certificates because obviously you can't I mean, they take years to train high school teachers, right? Or university professors. So how can what are you learning about teaching in let's say uh, I don't know how long 120 hours take, but let's say, let's just take a a five-week course as an example. What what kind of things did you learn in in that time?

Um, so so the 120-hour course I did uh, first of all, you had to learn or in some cases relearn English grammar so you could teach it. Because one thing maybe you know in in the UK, in our schools, we don't really learn grammar at the moment. Um, so I I went through my whole school, yes, without knowing things like what what is the present perfect, and and what are the conditional sentences in English. Uh, it was only when I actually did my TEFL course that I became more aware of these actual concepts and more aware of grammar.

On on the job training in a way.

In a way, well I think it's the same in any job. Um, you can do as many courses as you want, but you will you'll probably do as much if not more learning when you actually start the job than just learning looking at the theory.

Makes sense. And uh, one thing I always found a little bit interesting or or funny in a way is that, you know, when a lot of language schools abroad I I I looked it up sometime ago. So this might have changed but one of the requirements they had was that you had to be a native English speaker.

Uh huh.

And there was some there was a lot of debate about whether that was violating like the human rights or something because you're essentially it's essentially racist in a way, but in in not in an overt way. It's like saying you have to be from the US, you know. Uh, which I found really funny because it's like it's the school's prerogative to choose where they pick their teachers from. But anyway, that's not what I was going for. I was I was thinking about how did they because because you're in Scottish can be a little bit tricky. So did you have to sort of put on a like an English accent or what what did you do when you when you when you were going for these because I have a few friends from Glasgow and I'd like to think that my English is pretty good, but I don't always understand what they're on about. Um, so how was your experience like that?

Uh huh. So, so funnily enough, I'm not actually from Glasgow. I'm from like a small town in in Scotland called Stranraer where I got to say the accent is probably even more, uh, difficult. Um, but I think I think I was lucky, not lucky. Um, it always came natural for me to speak quite clearly. Um, if you if you were to speak to my brothers, for example, you'd think we're like totally totally different families. Um, but I I I guess I always spoke quite clearly and then just my experiences and need of need to speak clearly to get these jobs meant that I spoke even more clearly.

Right. So you so you just took it as a very active, uh, mindset initially when you were doing the the training and and the interviews and everything when you got into the classrooms as well.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was still maybe not so much now but there was still moments where I would I would forget and I would speak very fast or speak with my accent and the the students would be like, what? What are you speaking? What what language is that?

That's amazing. I mean, the students must find it hilarious when you when you get a chance to talk about Scotland and give some examples of the different dialects if that ever comes up. I I don't know if that's part of the the syllabus.

Uh, it's it's maybe not part of the syllabus but it's always fun. And one thing I love doing is teaching them a little bit of Scottish slang and Scottish words. Um, I I would say one thing as a Scottish teacher, and this probably goes the same for people from Wales is you always get referred to as English. So people always say, what's what's it like in England? You're English aren't you? And you're you have to basically always correct and say no. I'm British and I'm Scottish, but uh, not English.

That's the biggest insult you can give to Scottish people.

To to be honest to to be honest, I'm so used to now that I'm always shocked and positively so positive when a foreigner recognizes that I'm not English. Um, so so when I've been like on holiday to places like Greece or Italy and they and they and and they look at my passport or they see where I was born and they say, oh, Scottish and I'm like, how did you know? How did you guess?

Fantastic, fantastic. And uh, just continuing on with with your story a little bit. So obviously you've been in in Russia for you said five or six years now. You still teaching you you continued that career?

Yeah, um, at the moment I'm mainly moved online, which I guess for a lot of reasons it's it's much more convenient and you can find students everywhere. Um, but yeah, I've basically basically been teaching all of all of that time.

So a slight leading question there, so what uh, what kept you in in Russia for so long? What's the tell us about the transition from going for a uh, a quick semester or a quick year of kind of immersion in academics sense to now having lived there for five, six years?

Yeah, yeah. The the the unplanned adventure goes on. Um, well, basically, it must have been my fifth third, I guess I guess yeah, maybe yeah about my third second or third year in Russia. And I basically I was teaching town called Volgograd. That's where I met my wife. And she is obviously Russian. And I suppose being married to her is is the main reason I I've stayed so far.

Absolutely. And uh, that's when the language came in handy, I suppose. Uh, what uh, but then you'd been in Russia for you said two two years or so. Three years?

Uh, yeah, yeah about two two and a half it's yeah, yeah about about that, yeah.

So how did you feel about your language skills kind of going back from the first year of Uni. Obviously, you said you're going from nothing to something and then we have a few years in the country. Did you utilize immersion as everyone's talking about and did your Russian skyrocket overnight or or what happened when you actually got to Russia?

I I wouldn't say it skyrockets, it definitely not. Um, but yeah, I got opportunities Russian so much, which was great. Um, a lot of these companies where where you work um, if you're a foreign teacher, they'll have staff who do speak English, which make it great. But uh, for me, they would always pretty much all of them, with some exceptions, would always just speak in Russian. So I was just getting constant practice, which was great.

It's that in in the the the certificates or it where does where does he mean that?

All of these all of these courses and it's it's just everywhere in the teaching English world that you just yeah, it's like this kind of golden rule that I think sometimes needs to be be debunked a little. Um, and and there's so many examples, imagine trying to explain in English uh, to some to a group of of learners the word although or the word however or even even if you go for an easier word like the word entrance, you start pointing at a door and they all shout door and then you start, no, no, no. And then they start like, oh, is it the wall? Is it door frame? Is it window maybe?

Yeah, I I agree. I have to agree with you there. Obviously, I have absolutely zero formal uh, teaching practice and or experience, but um, every time I hear people say the word you should never in teaching, I always cringe because that's just limiting you so much like like you you say you imagine going into a Chinese class and spending like 20 minutes trying to get a word understood because you know, it's such a foreign language you know, in Russian as well. Like how do you if you turn it around, how would you teach advanced Russian concepts, you know, in Russian class in English when that grammar feature doesn't exist in English. So, yeah, I am totally with you on that one. If you can, you know, a quick translation and that's why I suppose you you make a better teacher as well when you improve the the kind of the the from language as well because you can relate it always to what they know.

Uh huh. I I think I mean, I don't think you need to know the foreign language to teach, uh, English, but I think it gives me another tool, another weapon in my armory. Because one thing that's really good a lot of Russian teachers uh, like Russians who teach English, they will do this because it's really useful. Is you you maybe like just write the sentence with a translation and you say, look, look, what's the same in the grammar and look at what's different. And and it's really good for for some people like using translations and using their native language. It's it's much more help it's more helpful than just using English all the time. Even though ultimately that's that's the goal at the end of it, of course, of just English. But it's a good way.

Of course. And I haven't had conversations in in English and you want to have as much input and output in English, but as you say, you can save a lot of time by just giving one word translation or a concept. Uh, what I find is really fascinating and this happens a lot when you if you go to one of the like conferences where a lot of amazing language learners are around you hear them say something like every time you say something they'll say, oh, that's like Swahili that they do that as well. So when you get more languages as well, you also have more reference points to how things work and you have more uh, cognates to pull from as well. Like in Russian for instance, you know, there's lots of English words which surprise a lot of people. Um, but there are obviously also words from even German and and other other languages which um, which is funny. So the what I'm saying is the more you know really, the easier you can uh, learn new things. Um, so for the students and the teacher, I suppose.

Yeah. And one one thing that's really interesting about modern Russian is is some of the words they take from English. Um, like obviously they take a lot of words connected to technology, like internet, Wi-Fi, as every language does. But there's a lot of words uh, especially among young people that they take from computer games. Uh, so for example, uh, the English word cheat and cheater, they kind of turn it into a Russian word, they call it, I forget my son he says it sometimes cheaterski or something, uh, Pachi Yeah. Uh huh. And it means like, you know, playing a game and cheating or doing something sneakily. And then they also take the word uh, easy and they have this phrase like, uh, do you like it easy? Do something on easy? Like do something on easy like Uh huh. And it's like to do something really simply, media na izi.

Yeah.

And then, you know, there that's great. It's uh, I think that happens with a lot of languages. Uh, I definitely see that in Danish as well. There's a lot of English words that are, uh, in and and what frustrates me some sometimes sometimes is that I I I don't mind using an English word in another language if there is no equivalent. Or if the equivalent is like ancient, you know, you sound like you're reciting, uh, Greek scrolls or something, you know. That's fine. But a lot of people in in Denmark will replace totally fine Danish words that would have been absolutely perfect to use in the same scenario, similar language, anything else with English words. So a funny example of that just to give give that, a lot of people say, dear nice. That is nice. Um, which is just it's mind-boggling in a way, but it also shows the power of English, of course. All movies, all TV shows, all basically any kind of culture in in Denmark is is is English. Um, I hope Russia has a slightly more resistant uh culture to kind of draw from.

Sure, that that whole debate I've got to say really, really fascinates me like, should we use this English word or should we should we use our own words? Because obviously as a native English speaker, I don't really have a stake in it. But uh, whenever I engage people, students, uh, people from other countries, I always just find it fascinating the the difference in opinion. And I I don't really know where I stand on it, but uh, it's it's it's interesting.

I think it's per at least for me, it it has to be per per word or per use or per sentence because there are there are definitely cases in Danish where it's just too awkward to say the Danish one. So the English one is much easier on the on the mouth and the other person will understand you right away. And I think that's why that's why we use words like nice in Danish. Um, I guess the other question is, when does a word become part of the language? You know, when does when does the word nice go from being an English word to a Danish word? Because obviously at some point all words were loanwords. So I'm not quite sure how that works. Maybe we should get a some uh, some people with a linguistics degree to come on and explain some of those points. But um, but you know, if it's being used all the time and there's no equivalent in your language, then surely it's not a loanword anymore. Then it's just that's just Danish. I don't know. I don't know why I'm going with that. But um, it's definitely interesting. And I think that if people do want to get out in the world and and experience things, then taking a one of the degrees. I know in Asia for instance, you know, we talk a lot about Russia in this episode, of course. I know Asia's absolutely starving for English teachers. So they all I've even heard stories of hiring people without certificates as long as you were born in in an English-speaking country. Um, they just need people who speak English because they have so many students in need. Um, so if you Google like English teacher China, you could probably get a job with uh, you know, an apartment and you know, uh, pocket money and everything tomorrow. And so the opportunities are out there, not just in Russia, they're definitely all over the world. I I also heard a lot about Spain, you know, a lot of people there.

I always see about China, I think I think they are becoming more stringent about like you must have a a degree to work as a teacher. But uh, yeah, I've definitely heard stories about that. Um, and every time I I do remember actually every every um, job I've I've had in in uh, Russia, anyway, you you have to obviously satisfy visa requirements. And and every time I I I've been asked for absolutely different documents every time. Um, I think for for one of them, I had to get a doctor's uh, what was it like, a uh, yeah, like a psychological evaluation or something.

Oh, really?

Something I don't know because it's the only time I needed it. If if it was just for the school or if it was actually for an official document. So I basically this was I was back in the UK at this point. I uh, went along to my doctor and I said, um, how how can I get this psychological evaluation? He's like, do you need one? I was like, well, no, but yes. And basically, he said, well, what I could do is I can write you a letter that says you've never been to a psychologist. And I was like, all right, okay. And he he wrote this letter, you know, Peter has never been to a psychologist to my knowledge. Stamp. Uh, other ones, you know, I needed uh, to do some like kind of, you know, tests like for for narcotics. Yeah. Um, you know, that was a bit more um, expected. Um, and then yeah, yeah, just these kind of things, you know, like every time that they asked totally different set of requirements depending on the school. Yeah.

And of course, the the the Russian visa requirements, even for just visiting are quite strict compared to other, uh, especially the Schengen agreement of course, with free movement. But um,

Well actually let me let me if I can just interrupt uh, maybe share some good news. Maybe you know about it that's uh, in Kaliningrad region where I live, for most Europeans, you can come on an e-visa very easily. Uh, you you put your details into some site, you you print something, you come to the border, stamp, and you're in. Uh, yeah. For like, I think it's seven days.

That's amazing. It's about time as well.

Yeah. And so tourism in Kaliningrad is is is absolutely growing. They want to do a similar e-visa scheme, I think for St. Petersburg as well. But uh, with the catch that if you're from the USA, the UK, Canada, you do not qualify for the e-visa scheme for Kaliningrad, you just need to get a normal visa.

I think the the the St. Petersburg one is is live as well. That's I heard about it, uh, or maybe they were just releasing it by the month. I heard about it. Um, and why not? You know, what a what a what a great opportunity to get more visitors because I know, I mean, I've been studying Russian for five years and I'm still in the uh, nothing to something bit. But um, I always thought about going there, but then I saw, okay, you have to pay like 150 pounds for a visa application. Then you have to arrange with the hotel to get an invitation and you you know, all those papers that were required whereas, you know, I go to the US, it takes me like two minutes to fill out an online form and that's valid for two years and they don't ask any questions like, why are you here? Um, just on visit. All right, come on in. You know, so I was looking at that for for Russia as well because it's it's not far either. It's a I don't know about the UK but from Copenhagen, I think uh St. Petersburg is only about two hours or so, two and a half hours maybe by by by plane. So it's a bit silly to have sort of the the language of the or the the country that the language I was learning so close, but yet so far because it's so complicated to get all that visa stuff together. So really good improvement. And I think they're doing the right thing because obviously tourism is going to boom really and and provide a lot of uh money to local businesses and and obviously the the government as well with with their sales tax and another taxes.

Yeah, absolutely like I noticed after they introduced the e-visas the amount of uh, like foreign registered cars, I could see in Kaliningrad just shot up cars from Poland, Germany, Latvia, just it just it was immediately visible. Give me a drive over just for a little trip. Yeah, it's actually quite funny. Um, especially with Poland, a lot of people and the near the border Kaliningrad, they they'll basically drive in, uh, fill up on fuel at the border, which is very much cheaper and then just drive straight back out.

That's funny.

Yeah.

Denmark and Germany we have the people there's a big sugar tax in Denmark. So people go to Germany to buy all their you know sweets and and cakes and whatnot and uh and um sugary drinks as well. So So people will bring the trailer, you know, hook up the trailer to their car and then just drive down to across the border and just across the border there are tons of these like border shops where you buy, you know, sodas and alcohol and sweets and you know, even sometimes they have deli meats and all sorts of things. But um, so I I definitely I'm aware of that and as far as I know it continues all the way up through Scandinavia. So all the way up in Norway, it's extremely expensive and they have a monopoly on alcohol. Uh the state run monopoly. Uh, which is the same in Sweden, but it's slightly better in Sweden. So Norwegians will just drive down to Sweden. The Swedes will drive down to Denmark and the Danish people will drive down to Germany. So it's like this knock-on effect. And I wonder where the Germans are driving. Maybe they're going to Poland or Austria. I don't know. But it's funny to have that kind of border trade.

Yeah. In fact, as as the the Polish come over to Kaliningrad for fuel, lots of people in Kaliningrad, they go to Poland for groceries because it's it's actually it's weird that it's cheaper and there's I think a much more select bigger selection. Uh, and you can get much more like, you know, European goods in Poland. Uh, so it's it's really popular. And I think once all this coronavirus thing started and borders started closing, that's the thing people miss most going shopping in Poland.

That's funny. That's great. Well, hopefully it'll open up again soon. We can all start to we can all start to live our lives a little bit more but um, just I guess the the last the last question I have is, what kind of you you're not in Moscow, you're not in St. Petersburg, which obviously the two big places that people will go, especially if they're looking for teaching jobs. So what made you kind of seek a way, I don't know if it was a purposeful decision or if just kind of happened that way, that you went to somewhere else in Russia?

Um, yeah, I mean the easy the easy answer to this is just my my character. I'm I'm one of those people who always wants to be different and sometimes that means making my life difficult for myself. Um, and I decided I decided rather again, I think I was being quite arrogant. I'm not going to Moscow. I'm not going to St. Petersburg. I'm going to go to real Russia.

Was it tricky to like integrate and get to know people was that made harder by the fact that you were slightly outside the norm?

Yeah, yeah. especially in in Orenburg, I was like in my company there was some Russian teachers and and me. I was the only, uh, foreigner. And I remember very, very vividly at the start, when I started there, my the manager, she said, oh, Peter, um, do you you're going to have some trouble fitting in? Do you want uh, us to organize some events or some, I don't know, like little day trips? And I just very arrogantly, I was like, no problem. I'll I'll find my own friends and that.

What's the language any part of that? Or was it I mean, everyone, no matter if you're moving to a new English-speaking part of the world, everyone, I'm sure in the beginning feels a little bit like reserved and a little bit have to try everything. But did did that have anything to do with the the language itself? Was there uh, like a barrier to to you kind of being where you wanted to be?

Yeah, yeah. I think I think obviously I was I was lucky a lot of people I met or they were, you know, just interesting and wanted to practice English, so it was a kind of like, you know, compromise. I would get a social life and they would get some English for free. Um, but yeah, there are a lot of kind of sometimes anxiety and just not not real anxiety but the the feeling of of being anxious to to speak and not make a fool of yourself in front of a group where everyone's speaking so fluently, so fast. I remember sometimes I don't really get this now but maybe occasionally if I were to go into a shop and I realized I new task a question like, do you have this in this color? Or uh, do you stock this? I would just be like get so embarrassed in my head. I would just be like, I'll just leave. I'll just walk out and go home. Even though I want this. I'm like, no. I'm not going to suffer the the the social awkwardness.

Right. Well, we'll have that, I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, it's it's kind of I I've just said that the biggest thing was patience because even like being in a big group and uh, everyone's talking away in Russian and you're like, this is great. This is useful. But I'm really struggling to understand and even I don't even know when to speak. Um, I I sometimes it was just, okay, I'll just write this write this out and then I've got to find a way to involve myself. And that sometimes I would just say, can you can you repeat or I would get whoever I was with to maybe translate for me a little. Um, but yeah, the the keyword was was patience. Patience is with building that social life and then patience, uh, like being part of it and and accepting that a lot of stuff was just going to go over my head. Um,

One of my, well, I think actually my favorite movie of all time is Yes Man with Jim Carrey. Uh, I don't know if it's a remake actually, but that's the first one I saw anyway. And it sounds like at some point you were living your life a little bit like that and I I find that absolutely fantastic. That's that's what I try to do as well. If my one of my life philosophies is if I'm invited to something, then I unless there's a really good reason not to go. Go. Coronavirus qualifies. Uh, then then then I'll do it. And uh, I think sometimes the crazier the idea, the more I'm attracted to it in a way. Where I remember spending a week in a cabin in rural Pennsylvania, learning Esperanto. Um, a language that I didn't really want to to learn or I had no need for. Um, but having a a great time nonetheless, so I definitely am on that kind of philosophy as well about just say yes and and of course patience. Yeah, it's it's everything and in language learning, I find that the the progress is really hard to uh, measure on a daily basis or on weekly or monthly basis. But one day you just realize, you know, what? That is new, you know, now I understand that. And you don't quite understand where it came from, but it just comes to you. Like we were talking about the flashcards earlier. I would do like 1,000 flashcards in a month and then I didn't do them again at all. But then like two months later, my tutor in a lesson asked me a question and one of the words just popped into my head. So it's like, I can't explain why. I there's no like logical, you know, scale of this is how you're going to improve in language X, uh, you know, plotted for time and and level. No, no, no, it's just it happened when it happens. And I think not being frustrated, especially in the beginning, I think that goes for going to a country or even learning a language. Just going with it. You will, uh, get amazing results.

So if I could I think if I could just ask something about the flashcards, we did kind of trash them a little, but I remember when I was using them quite regularly, then in real life, I would come across these words. And I would like say to myself, how did I know this strange word? Yeah. And I would like, oh, well the flashcards are doing something. Yeah, they definitely work. Uh huh. Yeah, definitely work. It's just a little boring and it's a little it's it's out of context. That's the biggest problem.

Well, typically, I mean, you can make sentence-based flashcards and a lot of people do uh, the one where there's like a word missing or something. Um, so in that sense, you can make them a little bit more clever, but then the the amount of effort and um, learning also time required goes up quite a lot when you have to learn a full sentence rather than just individual words. But yeah, absolutely work. I think it's the fastest way to learn vocabulary for sure.

And then and just one one thing about like the the time and thing. Uh, I so many times I've noticed uh, how much I've learned and it's it's as you say really hard to measure. But, you know, I'd be like sitting on the bus and two people were talking and I just I wouldn't be even paying attention and then I'd think to myself, God, those people are boring. And then I realized I can actually understand everything they're talking about. And you know, even though it's absolutely boring, I'm not interested, wow, I can actually listen understand and turns out all all these people weren't so interesting, but now I know for sure.

Yeah, it's just having the patience to not give up when you didn't understand anything. So that's that's the hard bit. But anyway, Peter, thank you so much for coming on the show and also, you know, reaching out and um, offering to come on. And if anyone else wants to come on the Actual Fluency podcast and tell your story, then go to actualfluency.com and contact.

Thank thank thank you very much for having me and and I reiterate your request because I love I love hearing people's stories. Uh, I think I think they're so interesting and just picking up little things. Uh, and I I I will be waiting for these stories to, not just you.

I mean, that's that's exactly what the podcast is for is to show experiences and and I think maybe it's because of the languages. I don't know, but I feel like the people are on the podcast definitely have slightly unusual stories compared to you know, the average. It's not often you hear about people just um, you know, just taking a course because it was there and suddenly finding themselves five years in in Russia and I've had guests on who traveled to 60 languages uh, not 60 languages, 60 countries before they were 25 and so anything goes but that's people might be sitting out there saying, oh, but my story is not interesting. I don't speak 10 languages like, you know, Benny or any of the other big polyglots and so I don't really have anything to contribute. But I I don't think that makes a difference. I think one language, one experience or one trip even sometimes can definitely fill the podcast of several hours. So don't don't hold back, you know, the worst I can say is, you know what, I can't come up with an angle for this uh, topic or or this this story. Can you help me sort of conceptualize it, you know, with Peter, you sent a very descriptive of few ideas what we could talk about. So that was very easy for me to use. Um, so don't hold back is what I'm trying to say, you know, just send just email me and then we'll figure it out and and if if you really are the most boring person in the world, which I really doubt, um, then uh, we'll we'll figure some other way of collaborating, but I doubt it.

I mean, it's it's a cliche that um, what language learning is an adventure, but it's but it's true.

Yeah, I mean, look at your life, you know, would you ever imagine that when you're back in in Scotland, you know, you're going to be living in Kaliningrad, teaching. I think I think everyone everyone owes a debt to the Scottish government and that list of courses.

Uh huh.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've you've changed a lot of lives in Russia. You know, you've taught a lot of people English, which is uh obviously a huge benefit these days and almost essential, I guess, for sure knowing English. So, yeah, definitely. But they they unleashed me on the world, you might even say.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Peter. And thank you too.

A big thanks to OptiLingo for sponsoring this week's episode. You can practice speaking a language by using OptiLingo's guided immersion method on iOS or Android by going to optilingo.com. That's O P T I L I N G O dot com.

Thanks for listening to the Actual Fluency podcast with Kris Broholm. To get more language learning tips, strategies, and inspiration, join the Actual Fluency email club by going to actualfluency.com/join. We hope you enjoyed the show and hope you've gotten some useful information. Till next time, this is the Actual Fluency podcast, signing off.