Maria Ortega Garcia: Connecting Deeper with Languages!
Kris Broholm hosts Spanish teacher Maria Ortega Garcia to explore personalizing language learning for greater fluency. They discuss methods for learners and students to connect deeper with a language, making it their own. Maria shares her journey from a difficult start learning English to discovering a passion for cultural connection through immersion.
July 30, 2020 · 1 hr 7 min
EP 176: Maria Ortega Garcia: Connecting Deeper with Languages!
0:00 / 1:07:06
Guest
Maria Ortega Garcia
What You'll Hear
- 1 Meet Maria: Personalizing Language Learning
- 2 Maria's Painful Start to Language Love
- 3 Five Years of Nomadic Online Teaching
- 4 Teaching Languages: School vs. Corporate
- 5 Make Language Yours: Playful, Personal, Emotional
- 6 Unlocking Success: Know Your Learning Style
- 7 Maria's Slow, Emotional, Creative Language Method
- 8 Find Your Perfect Teacher: It's a Vibe
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
What was Maria García Ortega's first experience learning a foreign language?- 3m
What are the differences between teaching languages in traditional schools versus company settings?- 14m
What is Maria García Ortega's philosophy for teaching Spanish online?- 24m
How should language learning methods adapt for introverts compared to extroverts?- 28m
Why is self-knowledge important for successful language learning?- 37m
How does Maria García Ortega teach complex Spanish grammar topics like the subjunctive?- 49m
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Welcome to the Actual Fluency Podcast with Kris Broholm. This show will inspire, motivate, and teach you how to learn foreign languages the best way. On this show, you'll hear incredible stories from amazing language learners who've learned 5 to 10, even 30 plus languages, as well as industry experts who help shape modern language learning through innovation and research. As we dive into language learning methods, techniques, and apps, you'll quickly discover what works and what doesn't. This is the Actual Fluency Podcast, and this is Kris Broholm.
This episode of the Actual Fluency podcast is brought to you by OptiLingo. You can learn over 18 languages with the guided immersion method. For your free lesson, just go to optilingo.com, that's o p t i l i n g o.com.
Hello everyone and welcome to episode 176 of the Actual Fluency Podcast. Today I'm joined by Maria García Ortega, who is a Spanish teacher, and she focuses very much on getting the student to identify with the language and make it theirs, to use her words. So in this episode, we dive really into ways you can make students more interested in languages, more successful as well. But also how you as a language learner can use some of these principles to achieve greater success, more fluency basically, by just making the language yours, basically um customizing, personalizing the learning you do and the results are going to go get so much better.
Recording this from a very sunny and warm Denmark at the moment where I'm spending the summer on holiday. I hope everyone is doing really well in spite of everything that's going on. And uh yeah, that's basically all there is to say this week. So enjoy this episode with Maria García Ortega and I will see you all in the next episode.
Let me just press the button here. All right, that seems to be working. Uh, let me see. Audio level's okay? Am I coming through fine?
Yeah, yeah. I hear you perfectly.
Okay, perfect. All right, well, Maria, welcome to the Actual Fluency Podcast. It's so cool to have you here. And before we dive into all the deep stuff about methods and how to learn languages, do you want to give the audience a little introduction to how you first got into foreign languages? What was your first encounter with?
Okay. Well, I started with languages, um, when I was in school. Um, I started learning English. So that was my first, um, encounter with a foreign language. And I have to say it was a quite a painful encounter. Because I didn't have great teachers and and I think that is a common occurrence for many of us.
Um, language, foreign languages was not something that was very valued or was taught well, I think. So in my experience, I really, I started hating English. Now I love it. So, the story changed, but yeah, that that's, that's my beginning with languages.
Not so good.
So when did you get the your first positive experience? When I actually went into an English speaking country and and I saw that what I learned had nothing to do with reality. So that was, you know, kind of the reality check to say, okay, I've I've spent seven, eight years learning something and it is completely different. The people do not speak like this.
And um but yeah, after that I I just fell in love with the potential that languages bring, the the communication and the connection with others and and the the beauty of just learning a language and understanding a culture and the way of thinking and and that was how all started after English, I just couldn't start, I couldn't stop, sorry. I couldn't stop exploring other languages.
Wow. So take us back. What, what kind of period in your life was this and did you go to university with languages or did you do other projects?
Yeah, well, in university, I knew I wanted to do languages. Um, so I, I studied humanities but um, in a variant that was applied languages. So that was when I started learning also French and I could explore Chinese at the same time. Um, and also I, that's the first time I, I spent few months in, in England. And that's when I realized that languages are much more interesting than what I felt in high school or school. Um, but yeah.
But that's super cool. I mean, that's a a big eye opener to come to go abroad. And have you stayed abroad for for for many years or did you go back and forth or how was that experience for you?
Two months I spent, um, abroad for the first time in England say said, um, opened the gate for me to a new world. I fell in love with languages, but I also fell in love with traveling. So obviously over my college years, I I just I stayed put. But right, right after I finished uh, college, I started traveling and um, I was a nomad for a few years.
So I lived, I I took my backpack with me and abandoned and sold all my belongings and and and spent, I don't know how how long it was about five years, I think. around five years traveling um, nonstop. Uh, and then, um, around 2016, I think it was around that time, I just decided that I missed calling home, like finding a place to call home and I wanted to to, you know, settle down somewhere and that place was Ireland.
Wow, cool. So, you're in uh the Republic of Ireland and uh very nice. I'm over in the UK, so it's just on the other side. And, um, yeah, traveling the world. That's something that I know a lot of the listeners are are really keen on as well, you know, maybe not necessarily full-time nomad travel but, but can you give a kind of a how did you do that? Just kind of sell everything and did you just book a one way ticket to somewhere and then went from there or did you plan it meticulously and you know, stayed a few months in each place or just so people can get an idea for for because you, you said it in like one sentence, you know, I just traveled the world for five years and when I hear that, you know, I'm not the most traveled person in the world, I'm like, wow, she just did that.
Yeah. Well, what happened was, um, I, well, it is it it wasn't obviously that easy, but um, I was traveling in a normal way for like in a normal way, I mean, you move to a place and and take your things there and find a find a a work, a job, sorry, and I was working, um, as a teacher in, in Ireland for a while. And then I realized that I wanted to travel, that I wanted some freedom, some freedom.
So what I did was I started my own business. I think it was back in 2011, um, well, I started my own business, you know, I, I created a website. And that was it. Um, but at that same time, what I knew I wanted to do was to travel and explore and be a little bit more free and I had savings from my my regular traditional way of teaching. I have always been a teacher, so, but I was teaching in schools or teaching with adults in companies, you know, teaching languages, um, in a traditional way.
But because I wanted to travel, I, I decided that probably the best way was to try to do it online with Skype on my computer. So yeah, and and, um, because I had savings, I just decided to give it a go. I gave myself a year because that that was probably what my savings I calculated would last if I didn't have any other income. Um, and bought a flight to India. Wow.
And and and that was it. I I am not a big planner. So that's not, I'm not very structured. So, yeah, I just had a, my my one flight ticket and went to, yeah, and I spent a few months and then from there, you know, things started to go in a in a to to go to be easy because I get in touch with other, um, digital nomads who obviously were kind of sharing their secrets. And um, yeah, I I I started to float around and I touched base in Spain a couple of times, you know, it wasn't, but I was still living out of my backpack. I didn't have I wasn't paying, you know, I didn't have a six month contract in any rent in in any place. I was just with my backpack going here and there for for a few years.
Wherever you felt like, whenever?
Yeah, well, mostly was, um, following, with the exception of India, that was a place that I always wanted to go. Um, after that it was just, um, following people. You know, I there was someone I wanted to meet because I was reading his or her blog and I was like, well, I go wherever you are. So, I meet you. And that was so it wasn't completely, yeah, I was just following people and and a little bit, um, following that that yeah.
It's a good idea. Good idea. Like, uh, I let myself, uh, I follow the, uh, the Polyglot Conference, you know, it changes every year where where it's going. So I always uh I just follow that so I don't have to think too much about it. It brings me to new places that I might not have considered myself. Um, there's always some people there I know, so it's never too dangerous, you know. It's always.
It it it's the same for me. So I think it, um, at some point I, I still, I, I was paralyzed when I was looking at the map of the world, I'm thinking, where do I go? Because it is so big and every country, every city is attractive. So for me, the the way to make decisions was just, well, I am interested in this person. I really want to meet this other person or I want to go to this conference or I want to attend this event or this concert. So I go to this country and because I am a slow traveler, what works for me is to stay in a place for a while. So, yeah, I I stayed for a while.
That's nice. That's nice. And, um, of course, uh the languages, lots of different languages, I imagine. Did you, because you were staying for such a short time, did you manage to learn any of the local languages to use or did you skip that because you were traveling around a lot?
No, I, I tried, um, I tried to learn. I remember I, I still have my, um, note notebook with my, my words in in Indian when I was just trying to, yeah. So every time that I spent probably over a month on that's, that's normal for me. I would spend probably six months to a year, um, in a place, I would try to learn something.
I remember when I was in Germany, I, I started learning German. I cannot say my German went very far, but I did start. So that was because they go together. I think that when you travel languages and and obviously you're in a country where there is a language you don't speak, that's the way to connect with people and that's the way to understand the place you are in. It's not only to talk to people. I think there is something in the, in the, in the place, in the land that goes before the people speaking. You know, it's if you want to understand the place you're in and understand the people living in this place, you you need to understand the language because that's just a product of
Yeah, absolutely. And uh of course some places they might not speak other languages that you know. So it might be the only only way to communicate. Yeah. That's so that's a very important one of course first and foremost. Fantastic. Well, I'm I'm really uh I'm really excited to hear that. I know that a lot of people, like I said, listen are also interested in in uh traveling and obviously now it's it's a little bit difficult, but hopefully it will come back at some point.
Uh but one of the things you said that I also wanted to talk a little bit about is the sort of career of languages. So you, you studied languages uh in university and you kind of decided that was going to be your career. And you said that you worked with like uh students in a school setting and you also work with companies you said. Um can you share some of the kind of differences between the two in case somebody, some of the young people out there listening who are going to university for for languages right now, maybe they're thinking about becoming teachers in the future, what are the differences and what to expect maybe?
Um well in my experience, I, when I started um, teaching languages, um, I started in schools. So that for me, well, you have to follow the program. Obviously there is a curriculum and there are exams that the students need to pass. So it is very strict. So it depends on obviously your personality and what works for you and and what your experience was at school because teaching a language in school it is, I find very limited. So the teachers, um, they cannot really sometimes, um, follow the students' needs because they have to complete a curriculum. Yeah, so, and they have to follow a textbook that has been decided probably not by the teachers themselves. So um, but there is nothing bad with that. I'm just talking from my experience and obviously for me, what I found that it was a bit so crushing because I wanted to play more with my students and and, um, find something sometimes I thought that my students were struggling and they were hating the language and I, I, I obviously didn't want that. And I wanted to to to make them fall in love with the languages. Um but sometimes you feel limited. So that's part of teaching in a school. There is a lot of politics and and it is a strict setup.
That's what most people do, isn't it? When they when they become teachers, that's the biggest place that most teachers go to teaching schools because they need so many language.
There is nothing wrong with that. You learn how to teach as well. You need practice and that's uh a way to to practice your teaching because uh it's good because you have the support of other teachers that are there and I remember I learned a lot from other teachers when I, I started. I am a very shy person and I am also an introvert. So, when I put myself in front of, the first time I put myself in front of a classroom of I don't know, it was, it was a big classroom in France. I remember it was I don't know, 20, 25 teenagers. I don't know. That that was really hard. And it was hard for for a few weeks. And I got a lot of really great advice from other teachers that I wouldn't have got if I was on my own teaching, obviously.
So, it has pros and cons and I believe that every person, um, every teacher is is the perfect teacher in different environments. So there are perfect teachers for classrooms that I admire because they thrive and they make the students you know, fall in love with the subjects. Um, and yeah, so you obviously, if you are going to teach in a school, you need to like kids. That's, that's really important. And in my case, I feel more comfortable with adults. And that's something I learned because I was teaching in a school for a while. Otherwise I wouldn't have probably learned. Um, so then I went to teach in school of languages, that's for adults. So I was teaching in companies. So I would go um, to the to a company to teach the the workers. The staff.
This is the Actual Fluency Podcast with Kris Broholm. Make sure to join the Actual Fluency email club by going to actualfluency.com/join. We'll be right back after these messages.
A big shout out to OptiLingo for sponsoring the Actual Fluency Podcast here in 2020. OptiLingo is a language learning app that features a method known as guided immersion to teach you over 18 languages at the time of recording this segment. And it focuses a lot about speaking and repeating and listening, of course, to get your pronunciation just right. It doesn't bother about grammar. It doesn't bother about long explanations of syntax or morphology or any kind of complicated concepts that kind of hold you back from speaking better.
And um you can get a free lesson right now if you go to optilingo.com. That's o p t i l i n g o.com, OptiLingo. And uh if you do decide to subscribe for the full version of each language, like I said, there are 18, there are more than 18 actually available. Um it's only five bucks a month. So it's extremely affordable as well for the for the full package. But I'm just really happy they are part of the podcast here in 2020. And it's run by my good friend Jonty, who kind of stumbled upon the method that the app teaches when he was trying to learn his own heritage language of Circassian, of which there is uh not a lot of uh resources out there for. So, thank you so much to Jonty and OptiLingo. I hope you give it a try. And uh let's get back to the action.
You're listening to the Actual Fluency Podcast, and now back to Kris.
How do you find jobs like that? Is that through some kind of agency or do they put up jobs like this just on the on the open?
Um, in my experience, there were a school of languages. I, I, this part was when I was in Spain. So, um, yeah, um, there were a school of languages that were hired by the companies. So it is rare that a company is going to hire individual teachers. They would go to probably a school of languages that have a bunch of them. Right. So and that was my case. So I would go, my my teaching would be before the workers start working. So I would start teaching them at 7:00 a.m. so they were very, very motivated. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, um, and yeah, that that's a different situation. So um that was better for me because I had more more freedom to create my own my own curriculum, to choose my own books and uh and also because I was working with adults, which which is better for me. Um, so yeah, that that was that was good.
Yeah, and did that um was that like a foreign company that had offices in different parts of the world or was it people that came into Spain in this example from abroad who needed to learn Spanish to be better in the company?
Well in that in those times, so I was teaching in Spain to companies, um, I'm I remember teaching um, L'Oréal. So I was teaching French for them. Yeah, because uh the people also, um, the the the workers obviously would need to travel to France or travel to to other English-speaking countries or travel to other countries. So the workers need to be able to communicate. So the company was providing the language training. So normally they, they were international companies in Spain because they needed their their staff to to be able to communicate in in their business trips. So Right.
So it depends um so I remember those days um in the morning I would go uh would be about, I don't know, 10 teachers going to the same company um to teach different languages. We have we have one of my colleagues was a Chinese teacher, German, French, English, that were always be three or four English teachers because obviously English is the language everybody needs to speak, but yeah we would go all of us, um, a bunch of teachers with our languages and and that's yeah, to the same company. It was fun.
Did they, I mean, how was that, you know, with the adults, was that very successful? Because I feel like if I went out to some of the companies that I've worked for, sort of in office environment, I'm not sure how successful it would be. Um, you know. How how did that work?
It wasn't extremely successful. Okay, so what happened here was that those, the the staff they were pay, well, they, they were not paying for their lessons. It was provided by the company. Right. Um and so some of them obviously they were very motivated and and delighted to have this opportunity, but some others where they were doing it because they had to. And that is always the problem with with that kind of situation.
So some of them they were just sitting there trying to just wake up over a coffee and someone speaking to you in a foreign language. That's at 7:00 in the morning. So I and also because obviously we would have to do exams or evaluation tests, um, throughout the the year. Um but what happened there is that the company in a way put a lot of pressure on us teachers on always letting the student pass because it would look bad otherwise. This is not school, they're adults and, you know, so there were some people who really took advantage of this opportunity, but not always. And it's understandable. So, yeah.
But, yeah. Well, um I really want to get into more uh specific language learning methods and ideas you've kind of gathered over the years. But, but first, let's uh let's just quickly round off this uh language teacher career. So, can you let people know what you do today and how you've kind of used your teacher experience to get to where you are today?
Yeah, well, um, as I said, in 2011, I created my website and I started to teach online. So that was also a learning curve for me to to know how to do it online in front of a computer and finding my resources and so that's what I do at the moment. I, I still work, well now I focus obviously in Spanish because that's my best language and um, I try to do it in a way that feels playful and that feels um, meaningful.
Um because that's what I experienced with my students and with myself that sometimes you learn a language as something that is out there, that is something you want to get to. But for me, that that felt quite strange. It's like, well, why is this, why am I seeing English for example, as something that that's not mine? That's not mine to play with? Um with all these rules and and so for me all these years of teaching have evolved into a very playful kind of thing. I, I want my students to have fun with the language, to lose a certain respect for the language. I know that may sound weird, but um, I want the student, yeah, just to see the language as something that belongs to them.
So if you decided to learn Spanish or French or whatever language you want to learn, it's for you to play with. You are allowed to to write sentences that are grammatically incorrect, but there is a play for everything. In the same way that a kid would learn making mistakes and making noises and there is a space, I think there is a place for play, for fun, for yeah. And I think that's a great way to really internalize the language because we are really good at learning languages in a very serious, structured way, but I think we are not as good as the other side of the coin, which is writing poetry, creating songs, um making noises and and just playing with the language, what creates emotion, what makes, you know, what what makes you believe the language or you what makes you understand that the language is for you, is is yours to to do whatever you want with it.
But, yeah. But isn't that also part of the problem that in schools primarily, the language that is taught is very much reading first based. So you kind of learn vocabulary, you learn grammatical rules and you, you learn how to read and, you know, you learn some pronunciation, but the natural kind of dialogue and you know, everyday speech is is really not practiced very much. Which is kind of like the the language you actually need first.
So you can kind of make a lot of mistakes by let's say learning just a few phrases and then you will, you will fix those mistakes as you go along and you'll get feedback and whereas if you just do the kind of school method, the old school method, you'll never get to a point where you can speak because you want to be perfect first, which of course nobody is. So, that's what I think anyway, that the school's really create this kind of no speaking uh environment because you can't have 26 students speaking, you know, then you'd spend 10 hours doing one sentence, you know?
Yeah. And also, um, but even with the speaking, which I, well I totally agree with what you said that in schools there is no speaking. I remember memorizing conversations. Like I don't know if you did that in school, but I remember memorizing dialogues from a book to reproduce in front of my teacher. That was my speaking practice, which is obviously pointless and painful. Anyway, but even with the speaking, I think there is, I don't think so. I don't. We we didn't even do that honestly. I think. We just read dialogues. I don't think we ever memorized. Yeah, I remember memorizing. I remember memorizing a dialogue about an umbrella and raining and it was just pointless and painful.
Anyway, but even with the speaking, I think there is, even currently, the modern, the more modern um, teaching or learning learning methods focus a lot on speaking, which is great, but not everybody needs to speak from the very beginning. And here there is a difference between extroverts and introverts. Because an introvert is going to to not want to talk for a for a while. Yeah. We need to internalize a little bit. We need to explore more. We need maybe to to journal in the language first. We need to feel, yeah, there is a difference.
I think, I think that um, education, the, well, mainstream education but also the modern more modern methods are very focused on the extrovert people who are going to be happy to talk in a group from day one, even if they don't have a lot of words, but an introvert is, it's just, it's not going to happen. Like that, that is painful and that's when you create fear for some people. Some people feel traumatized. They, they want to a language, yeah, but they feel that the way to get there is so painful and so unnatural that they feel a failure and they they don't want to do it and and it is really hard. So there has to be alternatives and that's what this is about, right? So I am not saying that everybody needs to journal in the target language. But I think that for some people journaling is a way to find your own words and find your, find what you want to say that it is as important as speaking in a group.
Right. Yeah, I think, uh, I think you're definitely right about that. That there's a lot of advice online about, oh, just, uh, you know, go out and speak and, you know, from day one and all these things. And I think it's probably beneficial and I think as in as an introvert, it, you know, the push to kind of get yourself a little bit out there and kind of push your limits is definitely good.
But I, but I think maybe the, um, the useful thing is, uh, what some people talk about the, some people call the silent period, um, where you just take a good time to listen and kind of get some of the pronunciation down and you you don't try to speak or anything. You just, you just listen and, you know, just read and and I think that's beneficial for introverts for sure to get maybe a more fundamental understanding before jumping into that, uh, conversation, which, you know, whether it's difficult or not, which is definitely true.
It's also, in my opinion, the most, I mean, that's why I learn languages, you know, some people might learn to read, some people might learn to watch Telenovelas or listen to music or whatever, people have their own reasons. For me, the the first primary reason is is communication, you know, being able to speak with a native speaker on another speaker, you know. Um, so I know if I get pushed to speak more, that's bringing me closer to my goal, even if it's, uh, painful, you know, but I think there's a really good argument for, first of all, learning slowly. I think that's a good thing. And, and like you say, you know, take that time, that extra time before diving into, uh, the speaking part of it in, in the beginning.
Yeah, because not, and and that's, um, everyone, I think it is very important when someone starts learning a language, what your reasons are. And communication, obviously, if your goal is to to communicate with more people, you need to talk. So you decide how you want to get there. And for some people starting to talk from day one works perfectly and works wonders. And for some other people, it is really challenging and it actually ends up creating, um, a very, yeah, some sort of trauma. It adds nerves and we know that when we are nervous, our words don't come to our mind. So Right.
Um, but also not everybody has the same goals for learning a language. So understanding what your goals are, it is at the base of of the process. And for some people maybe just, um, I I'm thinking about me learning Irish and it's not for communication. I'm living in Ireland, but I know, like I don't know anybody or very few people who actually speak in Irish. So why am I learning Irish? And it's not for communication. It is for connection. Right. It's an intellectual pursuit, maybe. Not even. For me, with I want to connect with the country I'm living in and I also want to understand myself better because I don't know, I think that with every language we speak, we kind of unlock parts of ourselves, kind of different personalities and different ways of expressing. So I, I am very curious to know my Irish side, you know? And so speaking or finding a speaking group in Irish for me it's not something that I need right now. For me, it's maybe reading poetry or listening to movies or what, you know, it's is a different experience.
Absolutely, yeah. Well, that's, that's important, you know, that's, like I said, it's it's really important to have the your goal. I mean, some people love to read and would like to read in other languages and they don't really need the the speaking part of it. Um, or other people they're like, I only need to speak, you know, the rest, I don't really care about. So I think that's important when you get started and, and like you say today, we have so many great methods and tools and apps and resources like, you know, you can go on YouTube and you can find materials in pretty much any language, I'm sure. Um, for free, uh, you know, that were completely unheard of, you know, maybe just 15 or 20 years ago.
So we definitely have more opportunity than ever. But maybe that's also a problem in and of itself, a bit similar to when you were thinking about where to travel next, you know, you could, you could go anywhere and with the materials, you know, we could use any resource and courses and and things. So maybe sometimes there's this kind of bias paralyzation of too much choice, you know, there's too many ways to study. Um, but, uh, I, I think in that case, it's just important to limit your, uh, your method research, just, uh, just get on with it, you know, pick something that you, you like to do.
That's a big one because I hear a lot of people say, oh, how can I, how can I read more in my target language? And I ask people, well, how much do you read in your native language? And they say, well, I don't really read. And I'm like, well, why do you, why do you think you're gonna read in L two if you're not reading in L one? But, but some, some part somewhere along the way, we were brought up to think that studying is through books, you know, in school, it's all about the textbook, right? So when we're adults, it's like we, we expect that to kind of continue and reading, reading books. It's just something we've heard, I guess, it's not necessarily good. It's not necessarily bad either. I'm not saying that. Don't get me wrong, but for a lot of people who don't read, then I would say it's crazy to think that you would read in another language. Like, but a lot of people think that way.
And it is crazy and I think there is a need to unlearn a little bit what we are, when what we are told. We are told that learning a language has to be like this. And and that's that's the steps you follow. Um, but I think that what is missing or what I find missing very often is is the people understanding as you were saying with the people who want to read books in in the target language but then they don't do it in their native languages that there is, there is a lack of self-knowledge. There is a step, I find that very often there is a step missing in um there is not enough introspection, kind of understanding what you really like, the way you learn better, um, why you are doing the things you are doing, why do you want to learn a language? Why do you want to learn 20 languages?
So, what is your goal, what's your your reason, your motivation, what what do you want to achieve? So I think that it is very important to to go to this introspection part and really understand your goals, really understand who you are in your target in your mother language, like in your native language, what kind of person you are, why you are that way. And then understand your goals. Why do you want to learn this language? What do you want to achieve? And also understanding how do I learn better? Like kind of questioning, did I enjoy learning a language in school? Why I did, why I didn't, what worked for me, what didn't. And you go from there and then you, then you find your method. Then is is easier when you are presented with all these thousands of possibilities. You look and you start seeing your thread maybe for an introvert, you're going to start seeing people who are teaching languages or giving advice on how to learn slowly, this slow learning method or maybe some introspective method in which you are going to be more exploring about yourself through the language rather than talking in groups. And but I think it is very important and I do feel that that's lacking. I sometimes when I ask my students about these, so why do you want to learn the language? The question is, well, I don't know because I don't know, it sounds good. But that's fine, but is that enough reason for you to keep you through the hard times? Yeah, you know, is the intention?
I don't think so personally. I think that I think that you can have very, you know, very small, quote unquote reasons like just the desire to learn another language. I think it can be enough, but you have to be very aware of it going into it that it is, it is a long journey and it's a lot of work. Uh so you're not just going to you know, learn in a weekend or something.
And the more reasons you do have and sometimes you can actually find them after as well. You know, you might find uh find that once you've, you might make really good friends with the teacher or you want to stay in touch with them or you go on holiday to the country and you really like it or there's some reason afterwards that you're like, okay, this makes a lot of sense and kind of confirms to you that this is a good idea. But yeah, motivation is a big one because it's such a, you know, it's such a long task to learn, you know, even languages that are very similar to one's own, still takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to get anywhere good at. So it's a commitment, it's a commitment.
It's a big job. It's a commitment. This for the way I understand this is, it's like starting a relationship. I see languages as they were my partners. Like, if I if I am committing to you, I know I'm going to be spending time. Like it is in a way, is a life, is a way of life.
Yeah. Absolutely. It's not something to do easily, but I will say you do get a lot of uh benefits early on. It's not like you have to, you know, be, you know, spend five years before it's any good things come out. I think with the first, first few words you learn, you already have a, a positive uh result because then you can use those few words and you add a few more and you know, the enjoyment grows with that. So some people Yeah the first seem to think you have to learn the whole language first and then you start to enjoy it, but uh no.
That may be problematic and that's one of the, the problems is that when I find with some of my students is um that they want, they have a very clear goal that they want to achieve. But they don't really enjoy the process. And that's where the problem is. Right, happens.
But you can be fixed though. Or explored. Solutions can be like you can mix up the the process in a way. Um so it's better to have it's better to have a bad process and good motivation than uh you know, a good process and and no motivation because uh the motivation will always trump the method. I feel like if if you want it bad enough, you'll make it happen no matter what.
I agree kind of, but not completely because if you have this goal, so you want to to be able to have conversations with people, that's that's your goal. But you don't enjoy learning the language in any, like if, if you don't enjoy learning, if you, if you resent the time that you are giving up to the language, I think it is is quite painful. Like I think it is quite sad. What that's my experience. At least what I feel is that the language sometimes the language is perceived as something that is out there. Yeah, I want to get there very really bad and I'm going to to start studying every day and you may get there, but the process has to be fun or you have to find a way to enjoy it.
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's it, that's it. I mean, I see it kind of like um you know, like uh fitness, you know, some people might say, okay, I, I really hate using the um, the the treadmill, but I like, I love biking, you know. Um so you just don't go on the treadmill. But some people have this idea that oh, to to learn, I have to do things that are not fun when you, you know, you have the the the variety or the options to to make it fun. So these days, yes, totally. Yeah. Yeah, these days, yeah. I mean, we're spoiled for choice. Absolutely. We can uh there are so many different uh tools and methods and sites and courses and books and, you know, that we can can use to learn with. So we are, we are so lucky right now. We have everything. Yeah. I mean, everyone listening, you know, definitely be happy of uh of the times we're living in. But do you have any examples of uh a way that your personal language learning method has evolved from from when you started kind of learning on, on your own to now?
Yeah, it has, it has been evolving and um right now is what we consider slow learning process. Um, and for me, what I need when I want, when I start, when when I work on the language and learning the language is finding an emotional connection with it. And I get that through for me through poetry and through music. I, I am a big fan, a big lover of poetry. So or or this kind of spoken word. So that is my entry point.
Um in the moment I decide I want to learn, in this case, Irish because that's what I am working on at the moment. I start booking, looking for books and because I am at a very, very, very early stages, I'm looking for bilingual books and I could work with the same poem for for weeks because obviously I don't have enough vocabulary and I, I, I don't have enough grammar. So it is like a puzzle. I have my Irish version and I have the English version next to it and just try to to understand what's going on. And it is like a, like a puzzle. But that is my entry point because I need that emotional connection with the language. That's that's what works for me and that's why once I know a little, when I have a, a, a little bit, a little bit more vocabulary and structures, poetry is what I try to do and journaling because it gives me this flexibility of using the language in a way that is less rigid and I, I, I just enjoy that process.
Obviously there are times where I feel I want to work a little bit on the grammar and then apply it to to my journaling or apply to trying to write the poem. But for me is is these, is creative expression and it is an emotional connection. So that's what I seek constantly.
It's something deeper in a way.
Yeah, well it is, yeah, for me is is what is what works and it is what I try to to implement also in my, in my lessons and in my practice with my students. There is obviously, I, I love grammar. and don't get me wrong. I, I adore grammar with all my being. But I think there is, there is a space, there is a time for everything. And what I see that works better for me is to dip dive in a grammar topic completely even if I am a beginner and some of the things are out of my depth, I, I don't get them, but I still like to, you know, be exposed to the entire thing, the entire topic and then I absorb as much as I can. And that is, that's something that makes me happy, like being exposed to the entire topic.
I am not a big fan of this dividing the language in stages because it feels quite weird. I, I think it's helpful for the teacher, but as a student, I feel it is quite strange. Um, I am just thinking about some grammar topics that they are divided in chunks and you are not exposed to them until you have reached a certain level when I think that it could be and it is indeed interesting for some people to be exposed to the whole thing, just read about it or watch several videos about it or whatever method you work you you works for you and get as much as you can and then revisit after a while. Like I, I am um, I think that my method if it, if if we have to describe it is not linear, it's it's like a a circular, it's an spiral. You just revisit topics and go back to the same things over and over again and find that you are understanding more and more.
That sounds, that sounds great. That's like uh you know, putting yourself into the subject matter and really diving, diving deep and not kind of the opposite would be, you know, learning touristy phrases for instance, that would be kind of the opposite I I see it. It's not, that's really kind of a shallow way and not saying against that, that's, that's a good method if you just want to get to speak quickly. Um but so how does that reflect on your your teaching? Has that has the way you teach languages changed a lot over the years or have you tried to, okay? Tell me about it.
Well, I, um, now what some of the things I am doing along with, um, what I was talking about, um, delving deep in a in a point in a topic, I have, for example, I have created, you know, these major topics for my students, which are always the subjunctive, Spanish subjunctive. Um, the difference between ser and estar and the past tenses, right? That those three things are always the the thing that my students keep asking me or get asking me and it's like, well, I'm going to to do something with this.
So I created something that I called masterclass. So where I laid out the entire, let's say, for example, subjunctive. I recorded, I don't know, how many videos um and talked about the whole thing, but I didn't go on explaining details. What I did was finding the logic behind the the, why, why the subjunctive works in this way, why it exists in the Spanish speaking mentality, why we need it, why we use it, why, why is it here? So, I created a, I don't know, I think it was a 20, 30 pages pages PDF and the videos and then that was it. That's the whole subjunctive that I presented to the students.
Um, I kind of told it a bit like a story and there were, there were not rules. There are no rules and bullet points. I'm just explaining the, the mindset, the logic behind this topic. And then different, like the students, depending on their level, I know because, um, I asked them after they consume the whole thing, um, what did they, well the feedback, how, how, how it worked for them. And what I saw is that all of them, they got the point. They understood, there was no, there were no um, rules they memorized about the subjunctive, they just understood what the reason behind using the subjunctive is. And that doesn't mean that they can always use it correctly, obviously not because that's practice and that's, that's the second part. First you understand why it's happening and then you put it in practice and then that takes time and that's a slow process.
But I know that, um, even for the very beginners, that they, they were scared. They were thinking, but I am an A two. I am not supposed to be learning subjunctive. And I said, well, let's just give it a try and see what happens. They got it because why wouldn't they? Like they understood why subjunctive exists. And what happens is that they start using it in their simple sentences because of course they still have a beginner level. They don't have a huge amount of vocabulary. But they start using it and it makes sense to them. And I know that some of them over time, they have revisited the course and they have done it again and they are understanding more deeply with each time that they do the course.
And I, I obviously give them opportunity to to practice my practice is always around um journaling because I like that. So I, I try, I like to to create, you know, these questions that are going to prompt um the use of this certain grammar topic, in this case subjunctive, for example and to creative writing with them. And um that's that's what I do. That's my, that's my way because I like to bring as I said the emotion to the language because I think that when you bring emotion, that stays with you, you remember that. Yeah, you learn better that way if you're engaged with the material. Yeah and you bring, you make it personal. You make it, you are actually, if you are journaling about a topic or a topic, if you're journaling about your life and and you're using a topic, grammar topic, um that stays with you. Like that that there is something very sweet for your brain, I think when you are combining the emotion and the memory and life experience to to the, you know, the structures, the grammar. Grammar is nothing like grammar is just a tool for you to express. So as long as you are expressing that that's going to stay with you in a way. So yeah.
Yeah, well there's also some personality types that really like to dig into stuff like that, you know, really kind of nerd it out a bit, you know, not to uh not to put a negative on it or anything in in the most positive way possible, you know, you sit down, you kind of go deep in the material even though like you say, they might not really find much use for it yet because you're probably not making too many subjunctive uh sentences if you're uh just starting to learn the language. But down the line, it will become apparent and and useful at a later stage. So I think that's, that's really cool. But I guess the fundamental if if any potential teachers out there as well, it's you know, do something you're passionate about yourself because you're kind of the best, you're kind of the best advertiser of your own method. And the other thing is adjust it to the student. So, um, if the student loves uh, introverted, extroverted or other things, um, you know, you can adapt it to to their needs, right?
Yeah, well, I, yeah, but it is what as we were saying, um, before, there are so many things available that I don't think that any a teacher needs to adapt to the student. It's just there is a perfect teacher for each student at this point. So, um, in my case, I know I am a better teacher for a student who who likes and is comfortable with introspection, for example. And I know that I, I connect less with a student who, who wants to talk about politics or who wants to talk about the news, but not about themselves. I feel uncomfortable and I can create conversation and obviously I have been teaching like that before. But there is there is a disconnection. So what I've done is for these students, I can recommend teachers who are perfect for you, but I am perfect for a student who is, who is comfortable with poetry, who enjoys reading poetry or who enjoys, um, introspection, basically. So, I I can adapt, but do I need? And is it the best for both of for both parts if I do? I don't know. Right. There's so many teachers. If someone is perfect and it is super passionate about talking about certain topics, well go with that person. You know?
Right. Yeah, well, that's that sounds like good advice. I mean if you go on online, you can certainly find tons and tons of teachers. So you don't, you should never have to uh have one that doesn't really Yeah, you have a community.
I think that and with social media kind of, you know, you get to know the person. Right. So you you know or the Yeah, or the introduction the way they talk and what they talk about and So, my job as a teacher is to talk about what I do and the way I do it and um as much as I can, so for any student out there who feels, oh, I, well, I, I I like, I write poetry in my native language. I would like to to see how it goes to do that in Spanish or what I, what my voice is um in in another language, well then I am your girl. But so
That's perfect. Yeah.
And and that's the beauty of social media, right? You you get to know the person and and you see and you feel how that person talks to your heart. So it is for me, I think that the key is that is not a rational decision made with your intellect. Sometimes it's is a hard decision. You kind of get a vibe of the person and like, oh, I, I really connect with this person. I know, I, I like the way this person express and what she says and so that probably is a good teacher. It's a good fit.
Perfect. Well, thank you so much and and and thank you for sharing your philosophies and and experiences with languages. Um just a final question. Uh where can people find out more about you or maybe get that uh work on uh on the subjunctive? I'm sure that people out there listening are like, oh, I, I've been struggling with the subjunctive for a long time. So uh so that people know where they can find you and learn more about you.
Well, I am my, my website is, um, my full name, so Maria Ortega Garcia.com. And I am also on Instagram under the same name, maria.ortega.garcia. And and that's, that's those are my two favorite platforms. So everything is in there.
Perfect. Well, I'll make sure that's in the description of the episode if you're listening on a on a podcast player and you can also check it on the website actualfluency.com where you also be able to see uh these links and any other links that uh we talked about. So, thank you so much, Maria. I really enjoyed uh our conversation today. I hope people got some inspiration to travel the world and teach languages and and of course learn languages.
Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Pleasure's all mine. Okay.
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