Dave Prine: Polyglot Therapy Part 1/2
Kris Broholm hosts Dave Prine for a "Polyglot Therapy" discussion. Dave offers Kris advice on language learning, helping him navigate personal challenges and reconsider his "ten languages in ten years" goal. Kris gains clarity, deciding to shift focus towards a reporting role in the language community.
October 9, 2018 · 52 min
EP 129: Dave Prine: Polyglot Therapy Part 1/2
0:00 / 52:24
Guest
Dave Prine
What You'll Hear
- 1 Welcome to Polyglot Therapy; An Unfiltered Chat
- 2 Diving into the 'No Cuts' Podcast Experiment
- 3 Linguistics vs. Learning: The Mental Time Dilemma
- 4 Navigating Similar Languages & Inevitable Confusion
- 5 Reconsidering Language Choice: Kris's Russian Dilemma
- 6 Battling Impostor Syndrome in the Polyglot Community
- 7 Part One Conclusion & Glossika Sponsor Message
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
What is Dave Prior currently studying?- 7m
Does studying linguistics interfere with personal language learning?- 9m
How does Kris Broholm manage language learning with a busy life?- 13m
Is it difficult to learn closely related languages simultaneously?- 21m
What are the challenges of learning Russian without practical daily use?- 25m
How does the polyglot community impact individual language learning goals?- 35m
Related Episodes
See all →
Hey guys, welcome to episode 129 of the Actual Fluency Podcast. This is your host Chris Broholm, as per usual. Really happy to welcome you back to the podcast. Um, really happy that you guys enjoyed the last episode with Mike from Glossika. And so I'm eager to, uh, keep making more episodes for you.
Today's episode is a little bit special. Um, I know I say that with a lot of episodes, but in this episode I'm joined by Dave Prior, uh, somebody I've met at a lot of the Polyglot events, uh, the gathering, and, uh, the conference. And, uh, he's just a really cool guy who has a really great mentality when it comes to learning languages. And, uh, also, as you'll see in this episode, giving advice, uh, to me about learning languages.
So, originally, this was intended, I wanted to do an experiment in this episode where we didn't talk before the recording started. So basically what normally happens is I call whoever's on the show and we have a little chat, maybe five, ten minutes, just to get our voices warmed up, just to talk about expectations and topics and that kind of thing. But just to try and mix it up a bit, I challenged Dave in the beginning of the episode to sort of just jump into it and record it as a kind of a fly on the wall conversation. I'm not sure that concept completely worked, but I'll let you be the judge of that. So that's why you'll jump straight into the conversation and not have, uh, the normal "who are you?", uh, although that does come in the episode as well.
And, uh, the other thing is that it's an incredibly personal episode for me. Uh, as some of you regular listeners might have noticed, my activity has been a little bit missing lately. Uh, I've had some real life stuff like moving around, moving jobs, um, trying to find out what country I want to live in in the world. Trying to find out if this language learning thing is something I want to pursue more seriously. Um, even more seriously than I have been doing. And, uh, during the episode, Dave helped me a lot, almost like therapy, so that's why I called this episode Polyglot Therapy.
And we talk a lot about the kind of wanna be polyglot ideas that I've been having where if you read my blog, it would be saying something like, uh, ten languages in ten years. And I think for a lot of people that's a great goal to have. That's a great idea. Uh, my goal was ten solid languages in ten years, which I realized now is not really what I want to do. Um, maybe with the help of Dave, maybe with the last four years of experience. Um, of course, if I could get to ten ten quality, high level languages in ten years, I'd be more than happy. But I think making it your goal can sort of, it can make a bad impact on your life, I realized, because we're all busy, we all have stuff to do, we all have our jobs, our lives, our families. And if the language learning doesn't quite go as planned, then it can be a bit of a frustration that, "Oh no, I, I haven't progressed at all in the last three months. What will become of me?" And you sort of go into this, or at least I do, obviously it's a very personal opinion. But I go into this kind of mood where I just don't want to do anything more with it.
So, that's why, I think after this episode, I, I really got a lot of clarity in what I want to do with languages, which is more of a reporting role, which I guess I have been doing for the last four years. I, I have been the interviewer, you know, the researcher, if you will. Um, I actually some of my work, uh, is going to academia with the help of the Open University. I, I don't know exactly how big a part some of these interviews have played, but I definitely had a request for the transcripts and sent them over as best I could. Um, so, going forward, that's personally my ambition. Yeah, I'll still learn languages for sure, but I no longer have this kind of impending pressure over my head to master ten languages in ten years, which I think to begin with was probably too much of a goal. What you should probably do, which is also something I talk about in, in a course that I made, is one at a time. And you should have, you know, some goals related to that. But the, as my good friend, uh, Anthony Lauder says, the only way to learn ten languages is to learn nine and add one.
So, with that in mind, uh, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Oh, by the way, uh, me and Dave, we're talking for so long that, uh, I had to cut it up into two episodes. Otherwise, there was just no, there was just no way it was going to fit in one. So, you will see, uh, both up, uh, two parts. And, uh, they'll be released almost right after each other. And it will be the same blog post on the website, but, um, the anchor or whatever podcast player you're using will display, uh, part one and part two. Just so it's not an hour and a half long for one episode. I think that gets a little bit too much for most people. So, uh, I hope you enjoy.
And last but not least, a little shout out to my friends at Glossika for sponsoring this episode. Uh, Glossika provide space repetition based programs, audio, um, with a lot a pretty cool AI that kind of scales the difficulty of the sentences as you progress, as a very hands-off feature. And if you get the subscription, you can get access to 50 plus languages. And there are also a couple of free languages, like Welsh and Manx, I believe. Although that's a very small course at the moment. But I like to see that Glossika's also doing something for these minority languages around the world. If you want to try Glossika, you can go to try.glossika.com. That's where you can, uh, try the courses and the service for a limited number of repetitions. And of course, if you do want the full package with all the languages and unlimited use and tools, then it is a monthly subscription. And like I said, you do get access to all the languages, which is great for aspiring polyglots. So, with that said, enjoy the episode with Dave, and let me know what you think. And be sure to check out part two, which will be released when you listen to this.
Yeah,
Yeah.
And just before we, uh, start talking, I just wanted to say for, uh, legal reasons, I guess. Uh, I am recording from the get go. That's how the software works. Uh, just so you don't say any incriminating, uh, secrets yet. And the, the other thing was, uh, I've done a lot of podcast episodes. I'm kind of tired of the format. I'm tired of, you know how when you're chatting with someone like at the gathering or the whatever. Uh, you have one conversation, and then when you try and record yourself having that kind of conversation, it's sort of different, maybe even artificial in a way.
It, it's, it's hard, yeah, because you, you're, you know, you're, you're consciously thinking, hey, I'm on, this has to be good, this has to be perfect. Um, I mean, I've, I've only done like a few episodes with Rick and I've done a couple interviews with like Lindsey and a couple other people. And every time I feel like when I'm being recorded, I sound like an idiot, so I'm sure this, this will be no different. So, um,
Well, so, what,
Uh, it's.
Yeah, so what I basically wanted to ask your permission to do is just basically publish everything from this. No cutting, no nothing. We're just trying to make it as natural as possible in one take. I think that's a, I think they say in the, in the movie business. Uh, you can have like a big long take scenes, uh, one take, sorry, one take scenes. Um, yeah, I don't know, are you up for it? A little bit of a, uh, an artistic challenge. Not an autistic challenge, which is very similar, but, uh,
I'm on, yes, I, I, I am game to, to do with it what you will. It's, it's basically, as we say, it's your funeral. Uh, it can only, uh, us, us doing this in one take can only harm you.
That's true. That's all right. That's all right. We'll see.
So, how, how's the sound? How, how's the connection? How's my mic? I've got like a little mic here and I'm wearing headphones so I can hear you best. Um, how do I sound?
Sounds perfect, perfect.
Great. Great. Okay. Great. So, just say the word and we will, we will call action and, uh, uh, we will
No. No. There won't be any action. We've already started.
We started. Oh my.
That's the, that's, that's what I was trying to get to was, I, I try and just, um, breaking down a wall, I guess, in a way, um, to, to try and make it more natural, because I, yeah, I like I said, I've done a lot of episodes, and interviews are very difficult. Like, uh, that's partly why I never really called my show an interview show per se. I would say it's more of a, a conversation. And that's why it's not really that edited to begin with. Of course, you cut the ends off usually, uh, just to get the usually, uh, the preamble and the postramble. You cut that off. Um, but yeah, so, so basically, what's new? What have you been up to? Why are you, why are you recording from today?
I am recording from lovely Charlottesville, Virginia, in the good old USA. Uh, this has been my home for a little over two years now. Uh, I moved out here to follow my partner, uh, from Santa Barbara, California. And, um, I am actually, today is my off day. I have, um, I have classes. I'm in grad school at at University of Virginia. I'm working on a Master's in linguistics. And luckily, you caught me on a day where I am not, uh, on campus for 12 hours. So, uh, yeah, so the weather's nice here, although we have a, we have a storm coming through, uh, the next few days. So, depending on when you, uh, when you put this online, um, hopefully my house will still be standing then.
Yeah, hopefully. I guess it's hurricane season in uh, some parts of the country.
Yeah, I think, yeah, usually, we, we, it's a big country, so we get a lot of different weather. So, uh, it's all, there's always something.
That's true. And you're, so you're, you're working on linguistics in the academic sense as well. Do you sometimes find that that kind of, I don't know, interferes with, with your own language learning, which, I think for the most part, is not that linguistic for most people?
Oh, entirely. In fact, um, and well, it's, it's funny, because, you know, working, working in linguistics, you get to work with languages, but you, um, I mean, it's, it's kind of like a, um, a mechanic, like being a garage mechanic and, you know, getting to work on fancy sports cars, but you never get to drive them around. Uh, so, uh, it's, it's a little like that. I, I do find that, uh, the language learning is really, it's, it's been mostly just a hobby for me through my life. It's just been a passion, something fun to do. But the real world does kind of come in.
And I, I love linguistics too. I love studying languages, I love learning how they work and how, uh, communities work with them. And my, my big thing is that I am an endangered language advocate. So I'm, I'm doing things to help, um, perpetuate endangered or minoritized languages, or to spread the word, or to, you know, hopefully get involved with, uh, something a little, little deeper, like documenting a language or creating a dictionary or a grammar book from scratch that, you know, that does hasn't existed yet.
So, um, yeah, so, so basically, uh, you're going to just going to get 900 word answers to your simple questions. But, uh, yeah, I do, I do find that studying linguistics and, you know, and, and other real world things that, even though I like them, they do keep me from studying languages.
Well, that's the same I feel about, uh, doing the podcast.
Don't worry. I won't tell your audience.
It's hard to, uh, it's hard to, uh, actually do some learning if you, if you do a lot of recording. No, that's not true entirely, but, um, but yeah, if you, if you spend a lot of time talking about learning languages, sometimes you find you don't really do a lot of learning. Uh, I mean, that's my personal experience. Uh, you know, if you go to a lot of the meetings or you take part in the Facebook groups and the, if you have like regular Skype chats like this one, then, you know, it is a real risk in a way, uh, not that there's any, you know, deadlines or anything, but I would say I, I have caught myself doing a lot of talking about learning languages instead of talking in the damn languages, you know.
Oh, well, I, I agree. And, and, uh, don't, don't take this the wrong way, but you are a language, uh, personality, you are a polyglot celebrity of sorts. And so, that's kind of part of your job, part of your identity, part of your, uh, your lifestyle. And so, you have to spend time talking about languages and reviewing things, or talking about how you've, you know, been learning them or how you haven't. And, uh, it, it's, it's like a, it's like a job. It's like anything, anything else.
Um, and in fact, I, um, I'm, I'm working on a podcast with my, uh, uh, good nemesis, Rick Derman. And we just recorded something a few days ago talking about accountability and community. And I find that, uh, there's, there, you know, there are forums and, and, you know, obviously, other venues where you can, uh, chat about language with other people. And I find that a lot of times, there's this desire to log what you're doing, and to talk about what you've done, and, and list all the resources. And I find that it, it, it's a, it's a fun way to engage with community, but it's really not productive for, you know, sitting down and, and learning, you know, grammar or vocabulary, uh, or, or actually talking with someone for a language exchange and, and so on.
So, it's, it's really kind of, you know, you have to decide what you want to do with your time and, and also kind of what you're obligated to. I think, I think last time I, I got details from you, you were working a full-time job, um, and you're also doing the podcast, uh, which, which, you know, I, I, I love. I love your podcast, I think it's great. Um, thank you for having me on. I'm, I'm, I'm flattered. I'm, I'm not, I'm now playing with the big kids. And, uh, you know, I, I think it's great, and I, I would love for you to continue this, uh, forever and ever. But I also know that, you know, you've, you've had, you know, many life changes. And you are very open about your, your, your life and your failures and your successes and your, your, your changes and, and everything. And so, I know, uh, first hand, uh, because you tell me, along with your other fans, uh, that you, you know, you have a lot going on. So, how does, how does, how does your life, uh, accommodate language learning nowadays?
Well, not much, admittedly. Uh, so, what, what I'm trying to do is to get better at this, the ones I already know. So, uh, instead of starting from scratch, which I, it's like ten times as hard as any other learning I, I find. Um, I'm basically working on just improving what I have.
So, the Russian is my best, uh, newest foreign, foreign language. So, what I'm doing is trying to get a lot more input. Trying to read the paper. I've got a, there's a a national Russian paper here in the UK. You can subscribe to, uh, for like a dollar an issue, uh, sent to your door, so that's quite nice. Uh, and, um, I have the Harry Potter, you know, as many other people do. Uh, and trying to read it, which I think is great because if you know the story, it's really a lot easier to, to try and read, because obviously, it takes a lot of language learning to be able to even get close to sitting down and reading a normal adult level, um, work of, of that size. Even the first book, which I, I think it's only about 250, 300 pages, the language used is just so, you know, it's, it's everyday language, right? So, you need a a working vocabulary of, what is it? Five to ten thousand words to understand it without context. And luckily, I have a lot of context, because I've read it in English and Danish and maybe some other languages I forgot. Uh, but that really helps. And I try to watch a lot on YouTube. My friend, uh, Artem is doing a lot of good work with his Russian progress project, I don't know if you've seen it. Uh, but he's a, a pretty cool guy. And just getting some input, I think is something that I've been lacking for, for that.
And then for work, I try to talk to my Swedish and Norwegian colleagues, which are two languages that I've sort of neglected all my life. But since I got involved with the language learning community, I realized that I've got two sort of free languages just hanging there, and I never really bothered to spend any time on them. So, so that's, that's basically what I'm working on. And I should allude to it, not really that much time. And I keep saying it's not necessarily the time of in the day, it's more like mental time. You know, you can only do creative and productive pursuits for so many hours of the day, I find, whether it's doing the podcast like this, or, uh, reading, uh, a really new language for me, or, uh, whatever it is that takes real, uh, mental ability. Of course, you can play video games and watch Netflix all day if you wanted, which is, uh, I don't know why, why that is, but, uh, basically, I, I find that for learning languages, you just need to be in the right spot mentally. And if you have a full-time job and you have other hobbies, and you have like relationships like normal people, then there's just not that much time left, uh, mentally, I find. And I don't know how you feel about that. Uh, do, do you have that energy, uh, to learn languages, more or less, or?
It, it, it varies. I, I get into sort of, um, uh, grooves here and there. And I, I, I like to do a lot of different things, but I don't always, um, you know, do them regularly. And so, uh, I like to play musical instruments. So I have, uh, I just got a a drum set for my birthday. So I've been playing that. But I also play guitar and piano and bass. Um, I study different languages. Uh, yeah, I have other, like, I've got like writing projects and just all these random things.
And, you know, uh, my, my partner, uh, told me one of the best things recently. She said, look, you can do anything, but you can't do everything. And it really, it really has made me kind of realize, okay, well, I need to figure out what's important, and what, what, what, you know, gives me the most, um, uh, pleasure, or what has the most meaning for me. But I tend to be a, uh, sort of a butterfly. So, I'll go from language to language, I'll go from instrument to instrument. And a lot of people say, you know, Dave, if you just picked one instrument, you would be so good at it. You would be, you know, a virtuoso. And I thought, well, yeah, but, but they are missing that whole concept of how much of any one thing can your brain take. If, if I didn't have drums and bass and guitar in my life, I wouldn't fill that time with just more piano. I would still need to put that aside and then go to something else. Go to another language, or go to another book to read, or, you know, or another Netflix binging series to watch or something.
So, I find that, that I do have the attention span of a goldfish at times, and it does, it does work against me. But I also, I also tend to be driven by what calls to me at the time. And, you know, good or bad, it's kind of what works for me. And I, I know I have to do my homework first and chores and obligations and things that I must do. But once I actually get down to the fun time, then it's really, uh, dictated kind of by what it, you know, what, what has the most meaning for me. Am I going on a trip soon? If so, then maybe I'll study that language, um, of the location I'm going to, over another language, like say Esperanto or any other language that doesn't have, uh, any immediacy in my life. So, I mean like you, you said that you're, you're doing Swedish and Norwegian, and that's, that's because you have a Danish,
Of course.
Uh, foundation, yeah. So, but, but, but is that, is that good or bad? I mean, the fact that you have this kind of accessible to you, does that, uh, is that really where you want to be spending your, uh, your language learning time on?
Yeah, I mean, that's, it's a great question. I don't, that I don't have a an immediate answer for. It is a dilemma. I've thought about it. It's kind of like a double edged sword, because it's so accessible. But at the same time, it's also not that different. So the point of learning it kind of, it's not the same as learning a completely different language, because then you need to learn it to actually communicate. But if I can communicate in Danish to Norwegian people, you might argue I don't need to learn Norwegian at all.
But, I, I think it's kind of like, it's not a very serious project. It's not that I sit at home and, and read, uh, you know, or watch anything in the language. It's just my, I have colleagues at my work who are from Sweden and Norway. And so I will try as much as I can, also during work, you know, which is like, you might as well do it when you're paid for it, right? Um, just try and use it as much as possible. And I've been trying to encourage the office to speak, you know, Scandinavian, as it were, uh, because there's, obviously we're in England. Uh, a lot of people have this, uh, they, they switch to English very quickly. So I've been trying to, uh, instigate a kind of a Scandinavian policy, because for the most part, we can understand each other. And I think it just, it just feels better that way. Whereas English, it's a little bit impersonal, I feel like, if we, if we know we have that connection behind it.
So, so it's not like I'm, I'm, I've got, uh, you know, uh, Assimil Norwegian here next to me or anything. It's not that serious, but, uh, I feel like it's, it's something that just makes sense. And I think from a career perspective, the difference between being able to understand, let's say Norwegian, and being able to communicate entirely in Norwegian is a huge difference. Which is also going to be very difficult to reach. It's a bit like going from, you know, A1 to A2 is like nothing, but going from, you know, C1 to C2 is like impossible. So, that's the same, I feel like with, with this language, where it's going to take me a long time to get good at it, because it's so similar, if that makes any sense.
No, no, I, I totally understand. I find that studying, uh, two or more languages are, uh, uh, closely related, uh, really doesn't work all that well. I tend to get confused by the, by the, the differences and the near similarities. And especially with Slavic languages. I think I tried learning, uh, Polish and I was it Croatian? I, I, I forget. They're two languages that were close enough to where most of the words were very similar, but I would, but I would forget which, which way to say thank you or please or. And I, I found that it, it just did not work for me. So I had to, I had to stop with, you know, like, I had to quit one and then focus on the other and get that foundation in before I could then, you know, learn something else on top of that. So.
Uh, it, it is a tough process. Um, my friend, uh, Lucas did it, uh, really quickly with, uh, I think it was French, Spanish, and Italian. And he, he said his kind of secret to success was using subtitles. So you had, you were watching using one of the languages and the subtitle in the other, because what your brain really needs is more to see the differences, rather than learn what's new. Uh, so, I don't know if, if, if that's something you've used, but for me, I think that makes a lot of sense to, to work that way. But of course, you're going to get be confused. I mean, that's like people saying, oh, why should I learn, why should my goal be to learn five languages, because I'll just get confused with the first two. The thing is, so what?
It's like, like, uh, I remember one day I was really, this is one I, I actually have never told this story before. It's a very funny story that I'd been, uh, I think I've compartmentalized for a while. But, so I was in uni at the German, uh, it was just a German major. And, um, we had to, there was a field trip to Germany. But I somehow got the weeks wrong. So I was sleeping in, it was like Saturday morning, and I was sleeping in, I've been up all night, sleeping in, it was about, I think it was about 11 when I finally got up. And I had like 15 missed calls, 20 messages. And, uh, I listened to one of them, and they're like, uh, we're about to board the, the train, where are you? Are you coming? Uh, what's going on? And, uh, and so I had to quickly pack all my stuff, find the train ticket, get to the station, and somehow make it to like, it was like a six-hour train ride. I had to get it all the way down there to Germany. And, uh, when I got off the train at the other end, I was so, it was almost like jet lag really. I know it's not because, you know, there's no time zone differences. But because I was so tired from yesterday, and I was so confusing for me, I got off the train and I just, I scrolled through five languages before I finally got to the German for yes or, or no, I can't remember. It was one of the two, like, uh, I was just like confused, basically. Because it was a German excursion, so we were supposed to speak in German. Even though, you know, everyone speaks English, of course. And, uh, and, uh, the student who housed me also speaks English.
But, so the confusion, I think, will always be there. And, and I, honestly, I don't think it's limited to similar languages either. Sometimes I, I, when I I'm doing some reading in a different language, it could be German. Sometimes I'll just, the, the Russian word just pops into my head, even though it's not related at all. So, if anyone's sitting out there worrying that if they start to learn foreign languages, or more foreign languages, that they will be confused, I can almost guarantee that you will at some point.
Oh, oh, yeah. That, that comes with the territory, and that's, uh, uh, it's not anything to be worried or ashamed about. Uh, and, and I think, I think some people may have the badge of, oh, I never get confused. It's like, well, good for you. But doesn't mean that it's a bad thing for those who do.
And especially, you know, in these, in these polyglot circles, and I, and I use polyglot as an adjective, uh, in these polyglot circles, you have people who really have put in the time to study, you know, different languages to different levels. And, you know, especially when you don't get to use them for a while, you've got all these words and sentences kind of swirling around in your head, you know, that, that, you know, we're, you know, we could say that they were in like different buckets in your head. But they're going to spill out, they're going to intermingle, and, you know, if you don't, if you haven't used, say, Portuguese in a year, and someone comes up to you and says, hey, say something in Portuguese, you know, you're not, you're not going to just be able to reach in that bucket. You've got to get the mop and clean everything up, and, you know, other words will come out, and you may stall and stutter. And that, I mean, that, that happens to me every single time.
Because I cram languages, usually for, you know, a travel, you know, uh, reason, or, uh, you know, back when I was younger, if I met, you know, a woman who spoke such and such a language, I would be inclined to learn it. Um, you know, and, and so I've, I've picked up bits and pieces of really about 40 different languages. And, you know, a lot of it I've forgotten, and there's still some of it just kind of, you know, kind of residual, uh, bits and pieces sticking, sticking around in my head. So if you say, hey, speak Estonian, you know, it'll take me a minute, and then I might be able to say, uh, "Tere õhtust," or, or, you know, that, actually that's it. That's all I got. Sorry.
Well, that's fine. I mean, I get it with even very good languages. If people sort of spring it on me, I'm like, okay, I've forgotten every word I've ever knew in this language. It's like, I don't know if that's an introvert, extrovert thing, but I, I find it really funny. Like, uh, I was talking to my friend Connor the other day, and he, he, uh, stays a lot in Ukraine. He, he talks a lot about his learning Russian. And, uh, at the end of the episode, he just kind of sprung some Russian on me, and I was just taken a back. Even though I think my Russian's pretty good. But I, I don't know what happens. It's just like, you flick a switch and it's gone. It's like I'm day one. Can't even remember a single word. It's great.
Well, well, what, what, what do you get to use Russian for other than like your own personal, um, you know, enjoyment, like reading and, and, um, and whatnot, reading the newspaper, uh, Harry Potter, uh, YouTube videos and all that. Do you actually get to go out and use it? Because I, I, I find that I can study a language and just be totally content with learning vocabulary, uh, you know, and I don't need to necessarily, uh, exercise it with someone. But I do find that when I do have that opportunity, even when I plan for it, it's still, it's, it's, it's a totally different set of muscles. So, are, are you speaking Russian, uh?
Yeah, no, no. Not at all, actually. And that's been a, a long struggle, not struggle per se, but that's been a long debate of mine as well. Because when I picked it, ages, ages ago, it's like five years ago now. I, um, it was kind of picked it out of the blue, you know. The video game I was playing had a lot of Russian players. Uh, it made sense, you know. But on the other hand, I could have, I mean, picking, I could have probably found better reasons to pick Swahili or something really obscure, like, uh, Quechua, you know. Uh, just learned something really, uh, really obscure. But I decided to go with, with Russian just for the, maybe it's a bit of a practical consideration. Going by like just number of speakers, I thought, okay. Well, it's either Chinese, Spanish, or Russian, I guess. Just as a term of practicality. I wish I would have chosen Spanish. I think that would have been a little bit easier on me to, uh, kind of, uh, you know, get me used to learning a a foreign language, and maybe one that was a little bit easier. But that is a struggle, yeah.
And I wish I had languages I could learn that had better reasons. Uh, and I think going, if I could do it again, I would probably have picked something, uh, that had more direct influence, like maybe some of the local languages. In Denmark, we have, of course, Danish is like 95% or more. But there is a significant Turkish population, there's quite a few Arabic speakers as well. Uh, so, I could have picked something close to my community, which could have been a lot more meaningful, like, you know, talking to the hairdresser or somebody down the pub, or whatever, you know. Um, whereas Russian, I would, there's almost no chance of me finding somebody speaking Russian in my home town. It's, it's just not going to happen. So, I don't know what kind of, what to make of it.
I, I've done it for, like I said, five years now. And the pursuit of learning a language like Russian, I think it makes sense now with what's going on in, in the world. I think Russian is a really strong language. And, uh, the, obviously a huge economy. They've really, uh, done well after the, the financial crisis. Uh, so, I think as a term of practicality, Russian was a good choice. But, in terms of sort of, uh, I don't know, social, uh, enjoyment, equitability, or whatever you want to call it, uh, I don't think it was a particularly good choice. And it was very difficult for me, actually.
Uh, so, I now that I've been through it all, I can safely say that I recommend people to pick a language, if they're getting into it for the like the first foreign language. If you've learned a couple languages, you probably already know, but, uh, pick something that's close to you. Pick something you can use, because that's the point of language. You know, if you have to artificially drum up Russian speakers or, you know, go find it all the time. If you want, if you're looking for it before, then I can't see it being very successful. Like, that's why it's taking me so long to get anywhere competent. And that's just stubbornness, because I was like, okay. Now I've spent a year doing this, I can't give up now. And I've been talking on the blog about me learning Russian. I've written about it. I've, you know, done presentations and, like, I can't just go back on that now. There'll be no way back, basically. But for anyone else, I would say, don't worry about it. Just, just go with something that's, that's dear to you, or that you can actually use, that are part of your interests or hobbies, or family. Um, practicality can come second, I think.
Well, I, I, I, I, yeah, I, I agree. I think that, um, I mean, I mean, practicality does play a part. Uh, it, it, it plays a big part, you know, especially because if you, um, if you want to learn a language for a specific reason, if you want to be able to use it, then, you know, uh, putting yourself in a practical situation is, is ideal. Your, your job, or travel, or, you know, again, meeting, meeting a a member of the opposite or same sex that you want to sort of, you know, impress or, uh, you know, get to, get to know better or whatnot. I mean, these are all, these are all valid, yet frivolous reasons, uh, depending on how you look at them. But I, I have to say, I mean, if you are, if you are not digging Russian right now, I, you know, I, I would, I would say that if you were to give up Russian today, and move on to Spanish, or start something new, or even take a break, I don't think anyone would or should or could judge you for that. And I think it's,
Yeah, I think it's,
Yeah, and I think it's important that people know that, uh, you know, if, if the language just does not fit into your life the way you wanted it to or the way you hoped, uh, there is no harm in, um, stepping away from that, even, even just temporarily. And saying, look, this is not giving me the pleasure or the, the practicality that I want, uh, you know, I, I mean, you, you, you've been doing this for years now. And what you've gotten out of it is more than most people who are going into languages. You know, a lot of people do go into them and just get kind of frustrated and then quit despite the fact that it's useful, that they have a a practical use for it. Uh, so it, it's, I mean, the, the value that you've gotten out of it so far, I would think is, is immeasurable. And, you know, and, and if you, if you one day said, you know what, this, I've gotten a lot out of it, but I don't want any more or I'd rather use my time on another language or playing another video game or or, you know, or, or finding a nice box of chocolates to send Dave, then by all means, spend your time doing that.
Yeah, well, I, I think it's a, it's a brilliant argument. I don't know if I agree entirely. Uh, just on a personal view, of course. Uh, if people are listening, then their situation might be, be different. But, I don't know, it's just tough that, for me, maybe, but this goes back to fundamental polyglotism. Because if you're kind of, if you're, if you're in love or if you like the idea of learning foreign languages, but you don't know which one, I think that puts you in a tough spot no matter what. And for me, that's the spot I'm in. Because I really do want to keep expanding my, my language, um, portfolio, and I really do want to keep getting better at them. But I don't necessarily have any need for any other language than English and Danish. English to figure out I live in England. And Danish, because my family's from there. And it'd be really rude to speak English to them. But they'll probably understand me, though, but, uh, but you know what I mean, right?
So, so if I gave up Russian to study Spanish, I'd be in exactly the same position, except five years less studying. So I'd, so I'd just be trying to learn a new language that I was really bad at, instead of some, something that I'm getting better at. And by the way, I would say that a lot of the enjoyment comes with, uh, as you get better. I think there's a lot of enjoyment at the beginning, when you're like, feeling the language for the first time. Then there's a long stretch of pain. And then you get to enjoy it because you suddenly, it starts to make sense. Like you start to understand how they think, the native speakers. So, I, I, that's how, that's what I do anyway. I try to find the enjoyment in, in the improvement, in the process itself. And I try to find the enjoyment in, in, in just trying to get better.
So, at some point, not that it's all to do with career, because obviously I have nothing to do with Russian. I don't have a job, I mean, we do have some, some business in Russia, but, uh, I don't think that's, uh, any, uh, where that I would like to go necessarily to work full-time. Um, but the old saying, you know, to put it on the CV, is something that I do work from, because it, if it, if it doesn't provide any benefit, any practical benefit, then I just don't get the motivation to actually do it. So, I need to have that reason, you know, that practical reason. Which for other people could be their grandmother, or the, I don't know, native, the home country, or whatever. But for me, it, it's a really difficult situation. And I feel like it, this is almost like therapy. Because, uh, I've had these thoughts since, since the beginning. I mean, if you go back to some of the old blog posts on Actual Fluency, I do mention it back then already that I feel like it is not as easy as people make it out to, to, to pick a language to begin with, which sounds silly. But, uh, so, I don't know what, what that makes me. I, I sometimes I feel like I'm a bit of a, uh, uh, a unique or, let's just call it a freak of, of kind of the polyglot world. Because I don't have strong connections to any other languages. I just kind of do it for for the learning itself, for the process itself.
Yeah, and that's, and I, you know, I think that is, uh, an extremely valid reason. But it does set, set people up for, um, possible failure. If people are interested in languages and they say, oh, what language should I learn? There's really no way for anyone else to answer that for them. People can give advice, but, you know, if you want to learn a language just to see how learning a language works, uh, then you would want to pick something, uh, simple or easy, which is, you know, a vague concept.
Not Russian.
Yeah, not Russian, not Russian. I mean, unless you're, unless you're Polish or, you know, something. So it, it does depend. But, um, I think, I think that people need to, uh, have, uh, an inkling of what kind of language they want to study if they want to study a language. Just say, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm a blank slate. Throw a language at me. It's like, well, that, that won't always stick, you know.
I mean, I like, I mean, there's Esperanto because it's very easy. And I, I propose learning 2000 words, uh, recently in Esperanto as a new goal. And someone, someone wrote back and said, hey, you know what, I, I think 2000 is, is too many. You don't need that. Because once you learn all the suffixes and prefixes and root words, you're, you're, you're pretty set. So, that, that can be a quick one. And in fact, the reason I'm getting back into it is because I've studied it just, you know, piecemeal, uh, over the years. And I finally decided, you know what, I want to get Esperanto under my belt finally. And it'll be easier to learn than say, you know, getting back into Hungarian or Estonian or Russian or or Manx, you know, and so on. So I figure, uh, let, let's, you know, I, I like Esperanto, but I also want to just get this over with and learn enough to have a great foundation. So that is, uh, that is part of the new plan. So,
I think it's tough, I think it's tough because the people, like I got into the, the whole language learning community as a community, you know. I didn't get into the language learning community because I'd spent years learning languages and then found people who also were doing it. I found the community first and then sort of decided to become a part of it. And that is, that is pretty difficult sometimes because you know, not that I said I couldn't, but it would be very strange if I posted tomorrow, I'm done learning more languages. Like, that would be very strange for me. But maybe, maybe it's not such a crazy idea after all. Um, I don't know.
Oh god, this is where you want to, oh, yeah. Oh, and yeah, and then and then Chris talked to Dave and then the next day he quit languages. Thanks Dave.
The podcast, the podcast is over. Yeah.
Dave ruined it for everyone, yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm just trying to explain kind of how I approach it, because I think there are a lot of people out there that, that have very different degrees of interest in learning languages. Some people are listening to just get a few phrases for their holidays. Some people are listening just to get a bit of company on their commute. Some people are listening, you know, to, to become the next Richard Simcott or Mr. Fanti or whatever. And for me, although that sounds lovely, I just also wanted to bring in kind of a, a different perspective. And I, I basically don't have any answers for anything. That's what I'm saying. But I would love to have the position that many people do where they just say, it just makes perfect sense what languages to learn. I have this family history. I like to go here. I like to eat this food. I like to listen to this music. And then there are people like me on cultured and classless. We don't have any kind of interest like that. But it doesn't really stop me from, from pursuing language learning as a, as a hobby. But I guess the big question is, am I doing it, am I doing it because I want to or am I doing it because it sounds cool to say that I'm doing it. Maybe cool is the wrong word, but it sounds, it it's kind of like, um, a virtue signalling in a way. Look at me how, how I'm doing all this language learning. And then behind the scenes, I'm kind of like not really enjoying it that much and and not really doing much of it. It's not entirely true, but, but you know what I mean.
Yeah, and I, and I think, um, I mean, the polyglot crowd is, uh, it's a fun crowd. I mean, it's kind of like my people. And, you know, and I think your people too. And it's, it's just a, it's a neat environment. You know, I've been to the last three polyglot gatherings. Um, in fact, that's, that's where I, I, I, I first met you. I don't, I don't know if you remember that, but, uh, because I was, I was very like, it was my first one. And, uh, there are all these people, you know, there's Lindsey Williams and Benny Lewis and, you know, Chris Broholm, you've probably heard of him. And Richard Simcott and all these, all these big names. And I just like, started learning about this community. And, uh, I show up and, you know, I, I like languages. And I speak bits and pieces, you know, give or take. Um, but I really felt like a a newbie there. And, and just sort of like, it, it, almost like an impostor. And, you know, and it, and it's, and it's great to be around these people who support the idea of languages. But you do have to be careful, because it's a, it's a very fine line between, um, going there and getting what, you know, getting that sort of thing out of it, where you're just around good people who are in support of languages. And then the other side is people who speak all these languages that you emulate and you want to be like them. And you want to have the, the proficiency and the fluidity of conversation. And at this last one, I just kind of realized that I am, I am not like, I am not like a lot of these people. I'm not, you know, I'm not that talented. And I, I never will be. And even, even, you know, in the past year, I've, I've started slowly kind of, kind of stepping back from that. Because I'm, I'm doing less with language study and more with linguistics study and, and music and other things that are in my life. And I, I just, I just don't have the ability to, uh, you know, spend the time that, that is needed. Not even necessarily,
Oh my God. This guy.
Spend the time, because Richard, Richard Simcott, you, I swear, you hit the guy over the head with like a, you know, an Acadian grammar book and it like, it went straight into his head. And he's fluent the next day. And I hate him and I never want to talk to him again. Except he's like the nicest guy in the world. But, um, but I will never be him and I will, you know, and I, I realize that I it would be great to say I, I, you know, have reached that level, but I never will. And I've accepted that. And I still plan to go to these things and still I still will learn languages when I want to or when I need to. And I will still go and buy books and, and, you know, t-shirts and whatnot because I, I'm into swag. But, uh, yeah, as much as I love this whole group, this whole, this whole, um, community at large, um, and I've met some great people, met you. I've, I've been interviewed by Lindsey Williams. And, you know, just I'm in touch with a bunch of these people. And they're all, they're all great. And that is the biggest reward. But I will never, never truly be what others are. But, but right now I'm working to do what I can to, um, you know, hopefully have, have someone down the line say, oh, yeah, I want to be just like Dave Prior. I want to know 10 words in 600 languages. And, uh, and then, you know, hide under his desk and cry. You know, I want to be just like him. So, um, because that's basically all I do. Um,
Well, I, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. That's interesting. But yeah, we definitely killed the all kind all hopes for future podcast episodes and, uh, language learning is dead. You should not learn languages. Uh, no, I, know, obviously it's good to have a different point of view as well. And, and I also think that I've been a victim of this impostor syndrome a lot. And I, I think it's because my goal with Actual Fluency was not necessarily to show how amazing I was or how I could be. I mean, in the beginning I did believe that I could learn a lot of languages in a in over a period of time. Um, because I thought that if I put my mind to it, I could do it. But as we talked about, you can't just kind of hit your head against a grammar book and eventually learn it. You need to actually have some drive and some motivation and some routines and some consistent effort. And it does take time. But at the same time, I think my goal was more to share the stories of people who did that and sort of document and interview and, and everything. So, maybe it's just, uh, maybe it's just me with my, maybe I'm just not entirely balanced on on what I want to do with myself, what I want to be in this kind of, uh, topic, this particular topic. But, I think you might have hit the nail on the head there that I, there's no pressure really. Like, if I come to the gathering next year, which I expect to. And I speak exactly,
Oh, I hope so.
Yeah, I was, uh, really annoyed to miss this one. Uh, just a, kind of a bad timing with the new job and everything. But, um, the last one was amazing in, uh, last year. The weather was amazing and just a, a really good show put on down there in Slovakia. Um, but if I come to the next one and I have exactly the same number of flags on my badge and I speak roughly the same level in the languages, who cares? You know, that's so what? That's, I mean, it's already already doing better than when I started five years ago. So, so maybe, maybe it's not so bad after all. But you can't help but have that feeling all the time. And then you're right that it is a, it's a very double edged sword about the gathering, which is funny that you should mention that, because somebody else told me this like the other day. I think it was three days ago. I did another recording. And, uh, he was, uh, we were talking about the LangFest in Montreal. And, uh, he said the same thing. He was like, well, I need to remind myself that although the motivation and inspiration I get from there, I, you know, need to not compare myself to some of some of the people there. Like if you compare yourself to Richard Simcott, everyone's a monoglot, right? You know, it's just,
Oh.
There's nothing that comes close. And, and, and he is who he is. Uh, and, and I think that it's important to take that, uh, perspective as well. But, but do come to these events. Honestly, I think they're great fun. Even, even if we ignore all the language aspects.
Oh, no, definitely. I mean, I, I, I, I was really glad to go last year because I met some great people the year before. And, you know, even, even just as like drinking buddies, it was, it was a treat just to come back and see these people. And to do it in the context of language, uh, uh, enthusiasm, it, it made it all the better. And, you know, I, and I, like I, I learned about, um, a lot of this stuff, I think in 2015. And then I was able to make the 2016 gathering. That was my first one. And that was like, wow, that, that really turned me. Um, you know, that, that, that changed me. I am a forever a changed person. And, you know, and you, like you were one of the first people I ever met. Um, on or, or heard of. Uh, first one was Lindsey Williams Naydhal at the time. And she, she did a like a, I think a video podcast with you. Then I learned about you, learned about your, your, your website. And then I met you at the 2016 gal, um, gathering. And then at LangFest, uh, shortly thereafter. Um, I don't know why I'm giving this history, but this is my story. And, um, I just, I, I have to say that I really enjoy the podcast that you put out because you are talking to all these people. You are giving, you're getting feedback and advice and different perspectives. And there has never been a time where I said, oh, but, but Chris doesn't speak as much as this guy or this, this woman. Um, it's never been like that. And I think that you, uh, are, are a huge part of the community because of what you do, and not because of the languages that you are trying to speak. And, um, yeah, so, so my, my point is that you better keep doing this because I don't, I don't want to get, you know, email threads, they, you, you ruined Chris. So, um, yeah, that's my disclaimer. But, um, but no, but I mean, it's just and then, you know, meeting you in person, meeting everyone else in person, um, it's just, it's such a warm crowd. And I think that people who are afraid of the crowd really need to go.
Hey guys, just wanted to thank you for listening to this first part of the episode with Dave Prior. It's, uh, it's really an interesting episode and probably one of the most unique I've done so far. And it's really helping me personally to understand sort of the problems that I've been facing mentally when it comes to learning languages.
Um, before you move on to episode, the next part, which you can find in your podcast player or on actualfluency.com/130, Uh, just wanted to quickly give a shout out to Glossika. So, Glossika are sponsoring the show this season, which means more episodes. And hopefully, if you, uh, like it, we can get them on board for the next season, which would be fantastic.
So, Glossika provide these audio courses in more than 50 languages. And the way it's set up is that you start out on a low level A1, or you can, in some of the languages, test out. They have quite a different amount of content for each language. So, you might want to give it a try for your target language just to see if, uh, see how much is available. You do get access to all their courses, all their languages, when you get a monthly subscription. So, you don't have to pay, you know, ten times if you want to learn and improve or maintain ten different languages.
What I really like is their hands-off feature. So, basically you can just start it and then you'll do your daily reps. And you do repetitions that get longer and longer apart. So, there's like part of the space repetition theory. Which I find really cool. And you don't have to click any buttons or do anything. You just have to like focus on what you're doing. No memorization, no hard studying, really. It's just a a daily practice. And you can really get a lot done in, say, 15 minutes a day, which is also what Glossika recommends, recommends you to do one session a day and, uh, do it every day. And it really helps you see the language in context. It helps you get grammar conjugations without even studying the grammar rules. And it also helps you kind of learning the spoken language without actually speaking to anyone because obviously you keep hearing the pronunciation in your ears. So, that helps you with understanding people, but also helps you pronounce words better.
So, I highly recommend giving it a try. And go to try.glossika.com. Uh, you can get started for free. There are a couple of free languages as well, like Welsh and Manx. And otherwise, like I said, it's a monthly subscription, but you do get access to all the languages, so it's really worth it. Anyway, uh, thank you for listening to this episode, and see you in the next one for part two with Dave Prior.