Lea Tiralarc: 5000+ lessons as an online teacher and the staircase method

Welcome to the Actual Fluency podcast. Each week you'll find inspirational, motivational interviews with some of the world's best language learners, industry experts, all trying to help you to learn foreign languages better, faster and more efficiently. And here we go.

I remember it was in November the year before, and I celebrated my 5,000th lesson. And as you may know, I'm also a linguist by education, and as many teachers around here, I've always enjoyed creating learning materials for students. And there was one activity that my students enjoyed more. And it was pretty unique, and I would call it "Les Callies" at that time.

Very cool. How just going back just to give people the the full backstory. When did you get interested in languages and when did you decide to to do it as a as a as a degree as well?

How I grew interested in languages. So in the years 2000, it was the beginning of um Internet penpalling. Uh there was um international international chat rooms where people would speak different languages, but it was still very niche at that time. And I was uh I was a child at that time, and I learned most of my English writing through um through just language exchange over the Internet, which was new at that time again.

When when was this? You said you did 5,000 lessons. It must have been a few years ago that you started.

Mhm, so I started in 2013. At that time, I was uh doing an internship, oh I mean, I was doing I was an a teaching assistant. Thank you for my for my English, by the way, which is my second language, and thanks to your listeners for being patient with my English.

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Very cool. And did you have did you see any kind of patterns in in what the students were struggling with right away, or did it take you some time to kind of get used to teaching before you, you know, began to develop your own materials or take us through that kind of development as a teacher yourself.

Mhm. Some patterns. First, that as learners, we can say a lot or we can write a lot with just uh few uh just a few words and few grammar functions that we know. So if you take just the verb "donner", which is the French for to give. "Donner" and then just some uh some compliments, some uh words like "une clé", which is the French for a key, or "la main", which is the French for hand.

Mhm. It's combining it with all all kinds of vocabulary to create actually endless phrases just by knowing that one verb.

Oui exactement. Oui, exactly right. "Je donne la clé", "je donne la main", and then just switching on pronouns "elle donne la main". And adding something at the end, "elle donne la main à son fils" or "elle donne la main à sa maman". So that's a part a pattern that I think is important, especially nowadays that uh we have uh gigabytes and terabytes and more of available content. So we want to be minimalistic and do a lot with less. Less is more. That was a one of my my first teaching principles.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, that's what Benny says as well, isn't it? Like if you when you start out, just sound you know, speak like Tarzan, you know? "Where toilet, me need food."

Mhm. Well, you can still you can still have good grammar and and speak uh standard language but still be simple just like Benny's Benny promotes. And there's also and Benny promotes, well I don't want to speak in his name, but uh I think that he promotes being expressive. And uh there's a lot that we can express through intonation, through uh expressivity in voice, and through body language.

Yeah. It's important and also I guess using the language early, not just uh staying silent and uh collecting vocabulary, that's also important.

Mhm. Mhm, correct.

Speak as early as possible. So how would you, if let's say, if somebody listens and says that sounds interesting. Are there any ways that people can do this sort of on their own using maybe flash cards or courses or anything like that? Or is it really a a method that's more suitable to teacher and student kind of lessons?

Uh so that's what we try to do with the Staircase. Because with the Staircase, the courses, they're centered around just simple phrases, just a couple of vocabulary, and being able to write or speak, because we have teachers available at the Staircase website to to be able to speak and write with this little kit of um of words.

Yeah. Yeah, they even leave an an impact, definitely. I guess that's what they're going for with Duolingo. I mean, people seem to uh some people are quite unhappy with it, some people say it's it's all right, but uh definitely some weird uh vocabulary in in Duolingo.

Yes. Well, it's it's uh it's a a mostly automated content. I mean, they've done uh they've done a great work Duolingo, they've worked really hard to to build their app. Is it a is it a learning app or is it just a game? Based on based on words and grammar? That's another question.

That's a good question, yeah. I mean, obviously everything is is free, so, you know, it's it's a good effort that way, and you get access to so many courses, but um but yeah, I mean that that discussion is kind of, I I don't even know what I think. I go back and forth on this, so it's not not something I I'd take up our time with, but what about um and there was something interesting actually. I think the internet has really provided a fantastic ways for people to who are interested in languages or who are who find find it nice to basically build a career. So, do you have any tips or advice for people sitting out there who are thinking, you know what, I could I could teach English online or I could teach Spanish online, like how do you get started with that if you just if you don't have let's say a a degree in teaching or any kind of certificates yet?

Mhm. So working online as a teacher, yes, a big yes for everyone who wants to get started. Um and at the same time expect uh to have to face a lot of competition, because when I started, I was lucky to be one of the pioneers just of surfing the the wave at the beginning. But now there's um how would you say it, there's a there's a there's a lot of language teachers around. So it's so if you want to get into the online teaching, you should see that as a marketplace a competitive market. So there's lots of students, um so it has grown, taking lessons with online tutors has grown more popular. So there are lots of students, but there are also lots of other uh other teachers.

Yeah. I like it a lot as a as a hobby well, starting out as a hobby to get into because you can, you know, you can choose your hours, you can choose how many hours you want to be available, and you can, if you get some help on how to make your profile, you can really, you know, get students relatively quickly.

Wait, wait, wait. Just yeah, I'm here.

So annoying, I think it's the internet or something. It keeps breaking up.

It has been.

Well, also for listeners who who want to become who want to work on the online, okay. I'll start again. So yeah, that's very typical when working online, just expect to have lots of connectivity issues. That's fine. Just relax.

Yeah, if you're teaching someone from around the world, you know, there's a long way to go. But you were you were talking about the uh starting online and and becoming a teacher and how you can I said make a profile on Italki, get some help maybe to make it stand out and then you can start slow and kind of build up.

Yes, you're right. Yes.

Yeah, so the first thing I just wanted to be positive and encouraging that teaching online is a it I have my my my typical week is wonderful, but I meet I have fantastic students, they're loyal, uh they're hard working. Um I meet smart people. I I'm lucky to be as an online teacher, uh working with inspiring people every day.

That's a that's a good tip, yeah.

Yeah, it it they might be intimidated or they don't want to be too academic, that might be the reason. Um but in my experience, just just students uh they they want homework. And I learn languages myself too. I want homework. So homework is is just a bridge between one lesson to another. That's my first.

How do you design your materials when you just get started? I assume for homework you you want to have something you can give the students like a handout or some kind of assignment they can do, or is it as simple as for next week prepare 10 sentences with this word or how would you if you're just starting, you might not know what kind of materials are available and what you can do. So do you have any tips for for some of that?

My students could tell better. Because there's there's such a variety. Well, in general, homework is either from a textbook. Because yes, I'm an online teacher, but we do use textbook a lot. They're so efficient, students love them. So it can be a chapter from a textbook. Or it can be a course from the Staircase. They use both. Students choose what they prefer.

Very cool. Very cool. I I can definitely see that happen. Yeah, it's a big benefit. You know, some a lot of teachers, mean not all of them, but a lot of teachers might just show up and just talk and have no plan and no homework and no strategy, don't change anything. And you know, those are probably the teachers who don't really make it that far uh if they want to grow as a as a teacher, but also I think the bigger plan that we're talking about as well is you might not want to do one-on-one lessons for you know, that might not be your end goal. Your end goal might be to take a number of lessons, but then have let's say, I don't know, an online business, maybe you could do courses, like you you've started doing, or you could write books, or sell even sell your own textbooks, I guess. But the teaching is kind of like a an accelerated way to get there, or it it supports you in the meantime. So is that is that your long-term plan as well to build a an online business around uh more let's say, not time sensitive projects, you know, not one-on-one teaching, but more like on demand teaching?

Mhm. So we're already a small business because we're about uh five people working at the Staircase and plus teachers. Um and to me teaching is a is it's a passion. My my students, they're my fuel. You see what I mean? Like they give me so much energy and they're my greatest support. So, you know, there's that question that we ask sometimes, which is if you were to win the lottery, what would you do?

Yeah.

So in my situation, if I were to win the lottery, I would keep teaching as I do. And um and then uh the Staircase, uh that's uh that's a side project. It's also led by by passion and also as I grow older, I gain more experience. I'm interested in business management, also in other industries. So I have fun doing this and I and I hope that it helps students, I hope they enjoy it too. The Staircase is not perfect yet. Uh there's a lot that we can improve. Um and I see that as just yes, just another product that we that we work to make unique and to help students make progress in learning languages. And um and they they go together.

Of course.

They go together with with teaching.

Yeah, definitely, and it's a natural progression as as well. If you want to, you know, you you're building products that your students will benefit from, but you can also you can also offer them to non-students at the same time. So it's like a win-win on that front.

Mhm. And also, um it depends on everybody's personality. Some people are great at doing podcasts. Um not to name anyone, but some other people are great at doing courses, like in writing. And they're not good at face-to-face. They don't enjoy it so much. And some other people for example, I'm a good example of that. I did not I I don't mind helping people, and I think have let's say if I were if I were to teach Danish again, which I did for a little while when I was in university. I would I would be perfectly happy having, you know, one or two very dedicated students working on very specific things with them. But I tried to do the whole, you know, whole week, 10, 15 different students. And for me it was just like, I didn't really have the the the passion for for that kind. For me it's a little bit too repetitive of you know, you're kind of starting over and over whenever you got a new student. And for me that was just not it's just wasn't for me. But if somebody out there is is more into that, then it's a good way to start. But what else I would what I would say with that is you shouldn't do it if you don't enjoy it. You know, that's for sure.

Right. I just didn't enjoy it, for example. I'm a good example of that. I did not...

Oh, yes, for sure. Because you don't want to bore your students of course.

Of course. Or yourself.

And and a teacher and teacher is a is a career, it's a career path of its own. So you have teachers who make very good revenue, uh because they're specialized. Uh so teachers specialize in phonetics. Uh like um French people, some are ready to pay, um how do you say that, I don't know the figure. You have some expression. Bon, hi.

A lot.

Oui. Some people. Some French people, they will be ready to pay a lot uh for for having better English pronunciation. Um so a talent teacher may go may specialize into just accent training. And who knows, may have you the opportunity to work with uh um diplomats from the French foreign service, or some celebrities, or politics. Because specializing also gets you to more specific industries. So teacher teaching is not only, uh how do you say that, a trampoline. A trampoline, this is like a an entry level.

Entry level, I see.

Voilà, oui, voilà, voilà. I don't see teaching as an entry level job, not at all. I see teaching as a career of its own with a a path to success of its own. And then there's also also careers as, oh yeah.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

You can be a blogger, course author, etc.

Yeah, but you build your as you build your profile, the opportunities reveal themselves, you know, someone like someone who's done Italki, let's say they might start on offering lessons for 5, 7 euros an hour, but if they keep delivering really high quality lessons and they get some good quality students, they could conceivably raise their rates all the way to, I think a lot of not a lot, but I think there are some teachers on Italki who are charging about 40 euros an an hour, so there's a lot of room for growth in between there. And that's just that's just your one-on-one time. You know, you can then as we talked about, write books, or do podcasts even, or you can do courses or I mean there's so many opportunities. You can do corporate training. Let's say, for instance, I worked for Michelin for a for some time. French company. And they had they actually did offer French lessons at at some point to their English speaking employees for free. But obviously somebody's got to teach those lessons. So if you somehow got in, you know, networked with some people from Michelin, they would be like, hey, what if you were to do a a six-month live workshop in our office, how much would that be? You'd be like, I don't know, 10,000 euros. They'd be like, okay, because they're a billion euro company, you know, they don't care about.

Mhm. Yes, Chris, you're right. There's so many things you could be doing as a teacher, but you need to obviously start with the teaching, have the experience and and get there. It's not on day one everything.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mhm. And also, if you want to become a teacher, you can contact me because at the Staircase, we're looking for more teachers and more students as well. We have available teachers for students. Um but yeah, just feel free to contact Chris or contact me uh if if that um if you're looking for doing some career in languages.

Great, yeah. I'm sure people would appreciate any kind of specific tips or advice on how to get set up as a as a teacher. that's a really cool um I think it's a really cool career path because you can start it on such a low volume, figure out if it's something for you. And then you can scale it pretty much as much as you want, you know. There was a guy on on the podcast, Alexander, he's on uh I think like 20 episodes ago, who just started his own language school in in the middle of the Ukraine. You know, it's like possibilities are endless. And that's that's why that's why languages are so cool.

Oh yes, they are. Oh yes, it was great. Oh yes, I enjoyed. I enjoyed it, you know, I love Montreal.

Fantastic city. It must be also interesting to be there as a French speaker. You know, to um do do you ever have any sort of uh understanding problems or are there any words that they use that you don't know or did you have any kind of communication breakdowns that that was worth discussing?

Oh, yes, sure. Oui, bien sûr. Quite the opposite. I think that the the Quebec French is expressive. It's uh it they usually speak a little slower than people from Paris. And uh there's people from Montreal and probably the rest all the rest of Canada, but I just know Montreal. They're very nice, welcoming, warm people. So you can only feel good and have a good communication.

Okay.

Yeah, I love I love the city. Honestly, I would live there if I if there weren't any visa restrictions or something. I would definitely try and live there for a while because I few years ago when the LangFest was starting, I stayed in the city for a month. And I was just like this is a great city, great combination of European and North American culture and people are just so friendly and welcoming, even if you're an anglophone as as I am. They were still very very friendly and hospitable. Um so I definitely second that.

Mhm. Yes, you're right. Um that it's not easy. So learning languages, I've had experience with English. Um of course learning English at school, and also in immersion stays. Uh I I would go to some of my family's friends in uh in the UK, and just go on vacation. So that's how I learned English mostly. And also now I live in Virginia, so I have to to evolve to American English, more American English. So that's experience with English, and then I also learned Spanish at school. So Spanish um with very academic, very school school like the way I learned Spanish. Also through through music and through movies.

Right.

Because it's a French publisher. So German, that's how I learned it. I also learned German through Schubert songs. You know, Schubert is a classic composer and he has lots of songs. Die schöne Müllerin, or Winterreise. So I learned some uh German through classical music. Et puis quoi d'autre? Chinese, someone in my family is married with a Chinese woman. So,

Just a little bit of that as well.

Yes. So some Chinese just at home. Like "chi fan le", uh "chi fan le", yeah, "how de", yeah. It's very small, but just family related. Et puis learning some Finnish when I was in Finland.

Oh yeah. Oh, it's very I think even ignoring like how hard it is to learn any language, I think Russian is one of them, the harder ones for for Europeans to learn. Just because it's so different and and so yeah, there's so many so many things that are very important that you can't skip out on like the genders and cases and that kind of stuff. If you mess that up, then the sentence completely doesn't work. Whereas in in German, you know, I mean, you still understood in German most of the time, even if you make a lot of grammatical mistakes. So yeah, I definitely feel that pain.

So yes, I do make Russian staircases. So just build uh just do the same with Russian. And uh that's pretty cool. Also with the Staircase now, uh we we we give away just flash cards uh with the illustrations from our illustrator Ben Doll. So um the Ben Doll, he's an American cartoonist, and he is working with us to illustrate the Staircase courses. So just this week, I'm working on making Russian flash cards based on the cartoons by Ben.

Oh, very cool.

Hmm. Yes, it's cool. And also, another classic exercise is just the fill in the blanks. In French we say "trou à trous". And the fill in the blanks, uh I've realized that so is the is the main activity in Assimil methods. We use it at the Staircase as well. And you know, there's this um machine learning researcher who's uh at the head of Facebook, his name is, well, he's at the head of the Facebook research department in artificial intelligence. His name is Yan Lecun. And he talks about um so in human intelligence and what makes it different from the current artificial intelligence. And he often referred about our capacity to predict, to make predictions. And the fill in the blanks exercises is just that, it's just predicting what's coming next with the context of what's around. So fill in the blanks, just go for fill in the blanks.

Okay. That's it.

Very cool as well. Fantastic. And um just before we wrap up, any future event plans? Are you going to go to Japan, or maybe uh the polyglot cruise next year, any uh future event plans?

Mhm. Yes. The polyglot cruise, I'd love to join. I hope that you'll meet some listeners there. And um and next year, um we might be doing some immersion stays in France. And otherwise most of uh events happens on thestaircase.org. And uh just yeah, just come and stay tuned and uh and come meet our team of teachers and see our courses, and keep listening to Actual Fluency podcast.

So you wait to cut me, you you made my job easier so I didn't have to ask where people could find you. that's really cool. So but thank you for for coming on and sharing I think most of all some ideas for how people can maybe uh design their own career in languages. I I think it's I I love featuring success stories like that. And if anyone out there is listening and have a similar story of how they use Italki or or other kinds of language production, maybe courses, books, videos, even YouTube, you know, uh let me know and I'd love to feature you just to give other people some ideas on how they can pivot their passion into a a full-time career.

Mhm.

And uh Lea, thank you so much for for being on the show and taking your time with me today.

Thank you so much, merci Chris. Thank you, everybody.

De rien. You're welcome. French one day. I'll just stop the recording here. Let's see if I can do that. If you're looking for a language teacher to enhance your language learning, then I highly recommend italki. Italki is the world's biggest tutoring platform and you can find thousands of teachers and tutors at very reasonable prices. Get a free lesson after completing your first lesson by going to languageteacher.co.