Noah Oskow: English teacher in Japan
Kris Broholm welcomes Noah Oskow, an English teacher on the JET program in rural Japan. Noah shares his language journey, beginning with Hebrew in elementary school, which fostered a lifelong interest in languages, particularly Japanese, leading to a career as a translator and teacher.
May 8, 2016 · 1 hr 11 min
EP 94: Noah Oskow: English teacher in Japan
0:00 / 1:11:27
Guest
Noah Oskow
What You'll Hear
- 1 Episode Intro: Noah's Language Journey
- 2 Early Hebrew Struggles & Japanese Discovery
- 3 High School Immersion & First Japan Exchange
- 4 College, Polyglot Club, Expanded Language Horizons
- 5 Challenging Prescribed Learning; Teacher's Role
- 6 Japanese Media: Input, Subtitles & Dubbing
- 7 Strategies for Learning Less Common Languages
- 8 Kanji, Culture & Immersion Opportunities in Japan
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
Who is Noah Oskow and how did he start learning languages?- 3m
Why is it difficult for children to learn languages they are required to study in school?- 16m
How difficult is Japanese for native English speakers to learn?- 25m
What are effective strategies for learning a language with scarce media resources, like Mongolian?- 47m
What is the best way to use subtitles to improve language learning?- 52m
What opportunities exist for native English speakers to live and learn Japanese in Japan?- 1h 3m
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Season 4, episode 2, learner profile 7 with Noah Osco. Welcome back to another episode of the Actual Fluency podcast. On this week, we've got Noah Osco in a learner profile episode, which is basically my way of saying we're going to talk about language learning. Uh basically, these are the episodes that I go into without any, let's say, agenda or previously agreed upon theme. So we're just going to let the conversation go to where it wants to go in terms of language learning, and that's the learner profile series.
And although probably many of the interviews I've done over the years could be considered learner profiles, it's only recently that I started to call these that by that name. So, this is Learner Profile 7, and Noah reached out to me after I started to invite everyone to come onto the show. And if you have an interesting language learning story, maybe you learned a lot of languages, or you learned them in an interesting way, or you spent time abroad, or maybe you have some kind of interesting story to tell, you know, don't hesitate to apply to be a guest on the show at actualfluency.com/ guest. That that's you'll see a little form, and hopefully, I can hear your story as well in an upcoming learner profile episode.
What else? Well, that's about it. I hope you enjoyed this talk with Noah. In the talk, we talk about his experience learning Hebrew and Japanese, especially, and how that kind of an obsession in in a language can lead to a lifelong interest in languages. So, I hope you enjoy the episode.
And if you enjoy the podcast, please do consider supporting it on Patreon. You can choose whatever amount you feel comfortable supporting it with. And that's actualfluency.com/support. It's going to take you straight to that page. And uh, you know, join the 10 other people or listeners, and shout out to my patrons out out there. Thank you so much for supporting, and uh, I hope to see you. I also put up some extra stuff there. So, enjoy the episode, and I'll see you later. I'm so happy to be back with another episode of the Actual Fluency Podcast, and on the show today, I've got Noah. And Noah, why don't you start by telling the listeners who you are, where you're from, and how you got into languages?
Okay, uh hello everybody. I'm Noah Osco. Uh I'm from Minnesota, uh in the United States, as I think most people probably know. Um basically, uh I'm really into languages now, and I currently live in Japan. Uh I've been speaking Japanese for something like 12 years. I was a translator for and still kind of am a translator. Uh I have been for about a four or five years as well. And currently I'm a teacher on the JET program in Japan. I teach English uh to elementary students in rural Japan.
And basically my story with language, I guess, would be that uh, so uh, I went to a Jewish elementary school. Uh and we learned Hebrew. Actually, I started probably learning Hebrew to some extent back in preschool. So basically, as long as I've been alive, there's been like some other, you know, other than English, there's been like some sort of like foreign language related thing uh going on in my life. And especially like, you know, other alphabets, uh since Hebrew uses its own unique alphabet as well.
So like in elementary, from elementary all the way up until eighth grade, I also went to a Jewish uh middle school and we, you know, Hebrew was just a regular part of um our everyday our everyday like uh education. And um at the time, I wasn't super into it. I think this is a thing that a lot of polyglots actually have in common, right? Is like, you know, when we go to school, I don't know if we're like super into the languages that we're kind of like kind of made to learn, you know, and it's not like your own choice, you know. And like I think for, you know, for Jews, it's like a big part of our culture. Hebrew is a big part of our culture. But um when you're a kid, and when you're in like a different society, you know, I think this is something that happens to like, you know, for example, people in Ireland learning Irish, too, right? Um when you don't when you don't feel that use of the language, and you might not feel you don't feel like you need to have that passion for something like that, you know, you aren't necessarily super into it.
And I was actually quite bad at Hebrew when I was in primary and middle school. I was probably one of the worst um in my in both my elementary and middle school out of all my like, you know, like all all of all of my fellow students. Uh and uh I did pretty badly. But around like fifth or sixth grade, uh I got pretty interested in Japanese culture and uh, you know, media and stuff, which is a pretty common story for people who start learning Japanese. And I kind of started studying it by myself. I think the idea that, you know, the idea even though I wasn't good at Hebrew, and even though I wasn't a good student when it came to Hebrew. Um the idea that you could learn another language, um and also the fact that another alphabet wasn't really scary to me, you know, like uh as I was getting interested in Japanese media, I really wanted to learn Japanese as a language to be able to kind of uh, you know, watch movies, or like read comic books or something uh that hadn't been translated yet, or something like that.
Uh so I kind of just started studying by myself off of some textbooks that I got at the library. And you know, I didn't make it super-duper far because I was studying by myself. Uh like, you know, fifth, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, while I was also still learning Hebrew at school, which of course probably just made my Hebrew studies even worse, honestly. Um, but you know, I I was into it. So I did like get a little bit of a base, uh, and uh, you know, I I kept being interested in it.
And I was lucky enough when I went to high school to uh actually go to a school, to Armstrong High School, uh in uh in Plymouth, Minnesota, that actually had Japanese classes, which was at the time was still really rare. It's not quite as rare nowadays, I think, but uh it was one of only a few high schools in all of Minnesota that offered Japanese as as an option, right? Because in America, I think even to today, most of I know nowadays Chinese is being added to a lot of, you know, Mandarin is being added to a lot of schools. Um but back then, uh basically, every single school, the options were Spanish, which was the main one, and then French and German, and maybe Latin. Uh but Japanese was very rare, and I was lucky enough that the school that was basically, you know, I could walk there across a forest from my my house, uh they had Japanese.
And not only did they have Japanese, but uh the teacher, uh our teacher, Mike Smart, uh was just an incredible teacher, um who really knew how to inspire kids. And he actually ended up becoming uh the Minnesota Teacher of the Year. I think maybe back in 2007. He got to meet President Bush. It's a great honor. Um but he was just an amazing teacher that really inspired uh all of the students, including me. And thanks to his, you know, his tutelage and my kind of like passion for the language, I just kind of really kept on getting better.
I got to go on exchange to Japan in high school for three months in a summer. I lived with like a host family in uh somewhat rural Japan in Ehime Prefecture. Um I got to go to school. I got to go to Japanese high school and kind of, you know, have like a an almost kind of a normal high school life here in Japan for a few months, which was a really cool experience. And um it happened to be the prefecture in Japan that had the uh the smallest uh proportion of Americans within the population of the entire country. It was something like there was like three Americans for every 100,000 people. Right?
So I uh, you know, I I was here in Japan for three months. It was only one of the probably the third country I'd ever been to in my life outside of America. Um and uh for the three months, the only people who could speak English with me, there was like one or two teachers at school who could do it okay. And beyond that, you know, I didn't encounter anyone else who was I didn't encounter anyone who was not Japanese for a very long time. And I had to use I had to use Japanese for everything, you know, like every single day.
And my host father was an English teacher at one of these these cram schools that uh kids go to after school to study more for tests. And he, you know, he had the most amazing English vocabulary, and he would just ask me, you know, like like at at like breakfast, you know, he'd just be like, like, Noah, how do you like what does this word mean? And it would be like the most complex word you can think of. And he'd be able to like figure it out and memorize it. But he could not form a sentence for like, you know, for like his life basically, um even though he had like learned like he knew the grammar, and he knew so many he knew so many words. I'm sure he knew I'm sure he knows in the words of Donald Trump, he knows the best words. But, you know. But, you know, he could like, you know, we couldn't really have a conversation in English. So like, I used Japanese every single day, you know, like just listen to it constantly. All the television was Japanese. The only place the only escape I had from Japanese at all was just, you know, reading some some like books I'd brought with, you know. Um Game of Thrones, actually, which is now quite popular, but it wasn't then. Um and uh that was my only escape. But other than that, it was just 100% Japanese all the time, and it was actually, you know, it was pretty incredible and it really helped me increase my uh fluency a lot.
I just had a great experience, and when I left, you know, I really knew I wanted to get back, and I wanted to keep on, you know, bettering my language and everything. Uh so I graduated high school. I went to college in Kansas. I uh majored in East Asian languages and cultures and Japanese, and kind of sort of double majored in international politics. And uh and you know, um and once I was in college, I think, you know, uh at first my Japanese went down a bit. You get really involved with social stuff. But, you know, I I knew I wanted to go on exchange, and I finally was able to go on exchange my junior year, and I went to Tokyo for two years, uh and I just had like the most incredible time. I had such an incredible time that I made the semi-questionable decision of staying a second year on exchange, which I think is a really rare thing.
Um so I actually had two full years in Tokyo, uh and just made a huge amount of Japanese friends and got incredibly involved in like the society and um, you know, I was I was I was hanging out with a lot of people from a lot of different countries who spoke a lot of different languages. Um so maybe my Japanese didn't improve as much as it should have in that time period, but, you know, uh I really uh not only not only was I able to kind of like immerse myself more in the culture, but I was also able to make so many friends from all these different countries and started to kind of get more and more involved in different cultures as well. And uh I kind of, you know, I really got into my mind that I wanted to learn more languages. And I started studying other ones, and I kind of started maybe to go a little bit back to Hebrew as well.
And once I once I finished that entire experience, once I was finally back in America, I was able to actually start making money working as a translator online, uh which is really kind of, you know, allowed me to uh you know, have a lot of, you know, really enjoy uh living in a lot of different places, and having time to study, and uh I finally ended up getting onto the JET program, which is this English teaching program in Japan uh that I think, you know, it's really, really well-known within the community of people who study Japanese within uh the United States and other countries as well. Um and so now I I ended up here. Uh I teach English. I've been doing this for two years. And uh every day I have just enough time to, you know, take a few hours and study another language, and now I've, you know, managed to finally go back and actually correct a lot of the mistakes of my youth that not really focusing on Hebrew, right? And Hebrew is now definitely my second best foreign language. And uh I also have gotten into quite, you know, I think in the end I have about 10 languages that I at least kind of like dabble in occasionally. And maybe, I'd say maybe like five of those, I'm pretty serious and hopefully continuing to get better, and uh all the while also hopefully, you know, um communicating some of what I've learned over the years in terms of language learning to the children that I teach as well. So, that's basically my story.
Fantastic. That's a really that's a really wonderful story. And I I love how how you started with one passion, one language that was your passion, and then you sort of said, well, this was a nice experience, you know, I should try to do this with some more languages.
So, and and you're so right about being a well, I guess, a child, you know, and when you start learning foreign languages, sometimes the idea that you're sort of being prescribed a language can definitely cause a lot of resistance. And I remember my German classes back in when I was really young. For some reason, I really enjoyed English classes. I think it was because we were all playing, you know, Game Boy and and we played uh, I don't know, Football Manager 98 or something. And yeah, it was a really nice game. Um, tried to play it recently. For some reason, it's terrible now. I guess, uh, anecdotally, it was a great game, but now it's terrible. Um, but anyway, we were we were also used to using English in in games and we had to guess what everything meant and there was there were no Danish translations or dubbings or anything. Um, so when I started English at a very young age, I was kind of excited about it because I knew I could use it for the games and uh.
Yeah, yeah. It had a real use for you, right? Yeah.
Right. But when I started German.
You felt that reason.
When I started German, it was very different. I I still enjoyed German, uh, because I I do did enjoy languages back then, and I I still do today. But there's still this element of it's not really your desire. It's like if your parents tell you to do something, you're very likely not to do it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It really it really gives you the kind of the reverse, you know.
Yeah, so so I'm a little bit sad at at at how that psychology is, but but I I can definitely I I feel you, and I I'm just happy that I wasn't the worst, uh, you know, because I I've seen a lot of students in those classes basically just soun out for every single German lesson. And if you ask them what does uh auto mean, they're like, don't know, no idea. You know, so so it can get a lot worse than that, but I I definitely see see what you mean with the basically being told, and we don't like being told, I guess.
Yeah, well, you know, I see it I see it every day in, you know, my students. I mean, it depends on the class. But, you know, there every even the best class, you know, there's a few kids who clearly they have they don't have any reason that they personally want to learn English. They don't see like, you know, they don't see a future where they're going to use it. They certainly don't have a reason to use it in this exact moment, unless they want to talk to me. But, you know, I you know, I think they all know that I can speak Japanese. So.
Yeah, that's tough also, if you're being in a in a way, you're also being asked to choose a very important life choice, and I guess the similar story is I know in Denmark, and I'm sure it's the same all over the world, that if you're at the upper end of of primary school, or elementary school, then you're often being asked to choose your foreign language. Um, we had a choice between French and Spanish, I think it was. And and I know some schools have dabbled in in more advanced languages like Russian and Chinese, but basically being asked as a, I don't know, 14-year-old, what what do you want to study that will be basically useful for the rest of your life, you know? That's that's a big decision, and I don't think enough enough awareness or information is being spread about just how important languages are.
And it would be awesome if we had more teachers like your uh Professor Smart, or Mr. Smart, what do you call them? Teachers? I'm not sure.
Mr. Smart, Mr. Smart.
Mr. Smart. Um, it would be nice if we had more people like that who can inspire the students without prescribing the language to them because I think that's probably the biggest problem is that it's very boring, and so students are not interested naturally. And then the teachers get really bored because if the students are not engaged in your work, then you're not personally, and yeah, that can be tough. I guess you have firsthand experience with that. I mean, it must be tough sometimes as a teacher if if a lot of students don't really care about the material.
Yeah, you know, um I think that as a teacher, when you're in that sort of situation, where as you said, like it's really prescribed that they have to learn this, um, you know, you see firstly, you you just do your best to try to engage and show them a reason why it's worthwhile. Um also just make it fun no matter what. So even if they don't even if they still don't feel like it's worth it to learn the language in of itself, at least they have fun in class and they have fun using the language. That's incredibly important, right?
Um and you also, you know, you just look out for those kids. You can tell that they're even the worst class, even the class with like, you know, even like a class that is way overcrowded or, you know, has so many kids who are so obviously disinterested, there's always going to be some kids that are engaged and do want to learn, and you can tell that they want to learn and kind of like, you know, you know, if you find those kids and you kind of make sure that the class is worthwhile for them, while still trying to make it engaging for everyone else, too, you know, I think it makes kind of saves you from that feeling that what you're doing is like maybe not purposeless, but that uh the people that you're teaching aren't really happy that you're teaching it to them, you know what I mean?
Right. Yeah, I'm just worried that that's that's what that that's what happens, because then the teachers get very content and then they don't try to make it interesting because they don't feel like anyone's paying any attention anyway, and then you have this very vicious cycle that and and teachers, you know, that I don't know why teachers are always old. Most of my teachers were certainly old. I don't I don't know how that works biologically, but if they do that for a long time, you know, they they get set in their ways. So they don't they don't use new uh pedagogy research or they don't use new methods or anything. And then the next poor batch of kids who come in and they're like, oh, I want to learn German. Then the teachers like, yes, today we're going to conjugate all the verbs twice. And they're like, uh, take away.
So useful.
But, yeah.
Yeah, it's painful. It's painful. But.
Yeah, it's painful, it's painful, but.
I mean, at least, you know, uh at least I get to be mildly useful still, I suppose. But, you know, it's like you were saying as well, in America, you know, um in America, I think one of the issues, I mean, in America, you do have a few choices once you get into um, I'm not, you know, honestly because I didn't go to I mean, I didn't go to public middle school, so I'm not 100% sure how it works in middle school in America. But at least in high school, once you're there, you get to choose between a few languages. But I think that there is a real issue where um there's not enough effort to kind of really communicate the value of certain languages or what, you know, the worth of studying something. Or even just language in general. I feel like, you know, in America and in a lot of countries, like speaking another language is definitely a prestige thing, but I don't think there's a lot of like uh education going on about why that's a valuable thing or like why it would be worthwhile, you know? Just just maybe beyond even just a business stance, you know? Like what what what the cultural value might be or just, you know, the personal value might be. And I think communicating that could really be helpful in uh getting kids more involved from the get-go in their studying.
But you could turn the entire country around, I think, because it it would give a much more open approach to integrating the different societies. For instance, I had I recently had uh Richard Benton on, and he talked about how he was learning Somali, because there's a big Somali group. And he also lives in Minnesota, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I I saw his episode, yeah.
He lives in Minnesota. And um and and, you know, can you imagine going down to uh any any uh American city and just saying to Americans, well, if you learn Somali, you can have a much better day with your with your fellow uh, you know, citizens? And they're going to completely go like, what the what are you talking about? But if you start early with that approach and say in the end of elementary school, you know, try to bring the value in almost like when you're when undergrads are looking for new universities. You know, they the universities send out representatives to kind of sell the university. Maybe there should be like people selling the value of foreign language learning, and because if I lived in America and I I, you know, obviously only talking about what I've heard here. But from what I understand, there are large communities in in different parts of the country where many people speak maybe Spanish, Chinese even, or.
Absolutely.
So if I lived in the vicinity of such a community, I would say that that would if I learned Chinese and there was a huge Chinese population, that would definitely be bringing the community closer together if if everyone started doing that. And there would be less of a us and them feeling and more of an us feeling in in general. But, yeah, maybe this is a little bit too ambitious, but it would be nice.
So, it's it's definitely nice to contemplate, right? I mean, I wish that Minnesota schools would, I don't know, maybe some of them do, but I mean, I don't know about them. But, you know, like teaching Somali. We also have a huge Monk population as well. That'd be another great language to teach in the schools. Um and also probably for you know, even for the second generation people in those communities, it'd probably be great for them to be able to have that opportunity.
Could be a little sad when the when they just hear it a little bit at home and they don't really speak it. They only understand it a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.
And then by the next by the next generation, it's completely gone. And.
Yeah, yeah. I I know that's a major it's a major source of regret for a lot of second generation things when they like or people, excuse me, when not meaning to call anyone things. Um but, you know, like second generation people, especially, you know, if you can understand your parents, but you can't really speak back to them, it can be like a big issue with the family itself and uh, you know, it's I think as the years go on, you get older and you kind of lose that connection to your culture.
Um it can be big. I mean, even I had a something similar. And, you know, my family, we came to America in like the 1890s from what is now Belarus. So like, you know, and and so like Hebrew, you know, Hebrew is not like the language of our our direct ancestors or our family. Yiddish was, um as well as Russian. Um but even so, you know, like being part of the community as as I got, you know, after high school, and once I was in college, and once I felt like going Japanese was getting good enough, I I really did start to have even that sort of like kind of regret of not having that connection with uh with my roots being able to speak Hebrew. And to some extent, I wish I could speak Yiddish, too, even though, you know, I didn't really grow up around anyone speaking that. But if I can have that sort of regret about not speaking enough Hebrew or Yiddish or something when I'm not even directly connected with with family members who really still speak those languages, I can only imagine what it'd be like in like as a direct second generation sort of person.
And it's happening all the time because it's being suppressed as well, because there's no, you know, everyone's saying, oh, you should learn English, and then they do, and then the next generation only learns English, and it's it's all gone. And it's kind of sad in a way. But hopefully, there's awareness that we're all trying to spread a little bit, will will help to make that happen. I have seen some progress in the uh the second generation uh or maybe even third generation kind of uh area. I saw I saw some people talking about uh looking for basically materials to teach a, I think it was a second or third generation uh to a German immigrant who didn't teach their kids German when they were growing up, and now sort of regretted it. So now they wanted some materials specifically designed for for children of um so of of immigrants to to learn that language again. And so that's kind of positive. I guess that there's still uh there's still hope. But uh it's definitely a big force you're fighting against, because if you don't speak English, you'll definitely feel some kind of uh exclusion and uh.
Yeah, I mean, in America, at least in America, it'd be a huge issue. In at least in a lot of communities, there are communities where you can get it. There are definitely communities in certain areas where you can get around without English. But, you know, at least where I came from, I think that, you know, if you weren't able to use it properly. And I think there is a lot of pressure from parents even, you know, to maybe sometimes to not speak the original language and to only speak English, to really want their kids to really, you know, to have that and not to have the their like, you know, home language, which, you know, which is I I understand why they want it sometimes, but it can definitely be detrimental to that connection with the past and connection with your family. So.
Yeah, and they think they they might be thinking, oh, you need English to get a good career. But actually, I would I would argue the opposite is probably more true because.
Yeah.
It's really rare to find people who are bilingual or truly bilingual in something with English. Um, it's it's kind of hard. Um so if you live in America or if you live in England, then the kids and you put the kids in an English school, of course, then they're almost certainly going to learn English. I mean, they're almost there's almost no way they don't learn English. So if you speak German to them at home, you're basically blessing them with bilingualism, which is a pretty big gift. And and then if you look at career opportunities, suddenly you can you can work with a lot of things when you have two perfect languages. Uh whereas if you only learn English, well, you're fighting with I don't know, 200 million people.
Everyone else. Everyone else who's bilingual within, yeah. Within, you know, with that within whatever country you live in, within that language. So that's definitely true. And I know when I was a kid, you know, like, uh, at the school I went to, we had, you know, some of my some of my fellow students were like their parents were immigrants from Russia. That was actually quite common. And like, you know, I was always so jealous that they like, you know, automatically got two languages. And I couldn't even speak Hebrew well at all, you know. And uh, and then like, you know, I put so much effort into Japanese for so many years. It's like, oh, I wish like, you know, my if only my family had been bilingual, you know. That'd have been so helpful. But.
Yeah, yeah. Oh God. Oh God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh God.
Yeah.
Oh God.
Regrets, you know, I mean, my family only had Danish, so there you go. I had to I had to do it myself. And uh I see some people have there was a particularly one girl in in my high school class that I was so jealous about because she had grown up with first of all, it was a it was a mixed family. So they had I think they had two languages at home to begin with. And then when she was between zero and five years old, they moved to sort of five different countries and lived there for a year or two.
Oh, really?
So when she came to school, she spoke like seven languages. And, you know, six of them like native speaker. And it was like, what? And uh I was just so jealous. But, you know.
It's pretty incredible.
Some people get that.
Yeah, some people win the language lottery and some people have to grind through the.
Yeah, some people win the language lottery and some people have to grind through the.
Yeah, just just, you know, claw our way up the period.
Yeah, just just, you know, claw our way up the period. Yeah, grab a verb here and there, you know, that's what we can do. Um, but I wanted to talk to you about your Japanese learning experience, because I know that it it's kind of a different one to if you had stayed in America all the time and just read books and done the usual. But were there any challenging aspects to learning Japanese the sort of very natural way you did it and and if so, how did you overcome those?
Sure. What I had to say, I think that Japanese, you know, I know that the for example, the US government ranks Japanese as basically the most difficult language for a native English speaker to learn in the entire world, apparently, which I think is definitely a bit of an exaggeration, personally. Um, it's like it's incredible it is an incredibly different language from English. And if you're not used to encountering other languages like that, I think it can be, you know, very uh it can be very frightening, you know, when you first started out.
But what I think honestly, what I think probably really helped me out from a from the very beginning of when I was studying Japanese, even when I was like, you know, in elementary school and just doing it by myself, well, is honestly, the amount of Japanese media that I was uh kind of watching or reading or whatever, you know. Um and I think this is something that probably uh, you know, I think a lot of people who get into this language, it comes from being really into kind of the anime culture, if I don't know if you know about it at all or anything. But uh, you know, like into the Japanese animation or into Japanese movies. I know that uh people who are getting into Korean, it's coming from a similar source as well with the Korean Wave and Korean pop music and stuff.
But um Japanese, you know, there's just such a huge amount of media that you can uh because they really, you know, Japan is basically uh along with America and India, it's one of the three countries that produces the most of its own media of anywhere in the world. And so there's just so much um television and there's so many movies, and especially I would say there's actually a lot of really high-quality uh especially like animation shows and also movies. Maybe not recent movies as much, but there's still like a huge tradition of really high-quality Japanese films, animated or live-action. And the having that resource, and being into that, you just hear so much of the language. Uh at least if you choose to watch it with the subtitles, right? You know. Obviously if you're watching it dubbed, it's not going to help you with your language very much. But, you know, if that's what you enjoy, that's what you enjoy.
Um and I think that from like, you know, when I was first getting into this, I was already watching like a lot of these shows or movies, and I was hearing so much of Japanese, and I was reading these subtitles. And, you know, uh starting to make those connections, and hearing the way it was spoken, and hearing the kind of the natural way that, you know, the natural rhythm and like the exact like kind of phrases that were used time and time again. Uh and I took note of those things, and that kind of really gave me like this boost when I first got into school in in to, you know, high school into Japanese. Um where I already kind of had like something I I can't really call it immersion, right? But I can call it like a lot of experience having heard it, and also having had the subtitles go with it, where I could kind of try to figure it out. And it gave me I think a much more natural base in the language than I would have had otherwise.
And then obviously, you know, like um the incredible amount of immersion that I've gotten over the years is incredibly helpful. And, you know, I I didn't actually mention it, but um when I was in university once I got back from Japan, uh I uh I was the event chair for the Japanese Student Association. So I was like really involved with like all of the Japanese exchange students and all of these big events we had together. So I was speaking Japanese. I might have been speaking more Japanese per day in, you know, the middle of Kansas than I was in Japan some days. I'm like 100% serious, too, which is a little bit ridiculous. But, you know, I'd be in Tokyo and like in this dormitory. And we'd have, you know, we'd have like, you know, it would be like it was like 60, it was a boys-only dormitory. Uh punishment of being kicked out of the dormitory if you even brought a girl to the door or something. But um there was like 45, it was like 45 Japanese students and about 15 exchange students, they're like, give or take depending on the semester. Um from all over the world. And of course, you know, you can get really involved with, you know, if someone can speak the same language as you, even if you're trying to learn the other language, and sometimes you can get caught in what I think, you know, I think even the episodes that you've had previously, people have talked about that kind of X-pat X-pat bubble. You can get caught in.
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Which is true even for exchange students. If you have that opportunity, you know, like um and so sometimes in Japan, I might be hanging out with these people more during the day than with Japanese people. Uh but once I got back to college, or or once I got back to the United States, you know, I was kind of every single day just like with all of these exchange students and kind of working with them and planning things with them and doing stuff with them. So I was just speaking so much every day in that situation. Now I now that I like in uh you know, that I'm studying more and more languages, I really miss college because what an amazing opportunity to meet people from different, right? You know, like it really is.
Um and I kind of capitalized on that a little bit as well when I was in college, because I helped I helped found actually the Polyglot Club uh at my at the University of Kansas. Um before actually, I didn't even know what that word meant at that time. Um there is this Taiwanese guy named Terry, he's an he's a really like a pretty crazy hyper polyglot. He was recently on a TED Talk for it was like but it was a Taiwanese TED Talk. It was in Chinese. I don't speak Chinese. I'm sorry. But um but he's really like he speaks like nine languages fluently at least, and he speaks quite a few more uh at least to some degree. And he was like convincing me that I needed to help, you know, out this Polyglot Club, not that I knew what that word even meant. But, you know, we helped found that, which was really useful too. And like, you know, we got a lot of different languages going on. But I wasn't good at anything yet at that point beyond Japanese. Right.
But anyway, I guess the main point is like, you know, uh in terms of the way that I learned Japanese, uh, you know, I I really uh from the start was listening to a lot of the language and also trying to connect it with English in my head. But at the same time, hearing the way that it was naturally spoken. So I could have that mental connection with my native language without it actually affecting the uh the kind of the sentence structure and like kind of the natural flow of the Japanese, because I was hearing it in like such a natural way all the time. Um from just even the early days of watching Japanese media, uh once, you know, also being on exchange and just like having a very long kind of like natural connection with the language as a result in addition to like a lot of, you know, like I said, great teachers and um, you know, a lot of a lot of personal study as well, you know, lots and lots of like, you know, uh, you know, lots and lots of vocabulary study and stuff. So.
Um, and I think that uh this is a great way to learn a language that is so different from your native language. I think that you need to have this kind of uh even, you know, like sort of passive listening and uh and kind of getting used to how the language actually sounds and how words are actually used. Um and that's what I think that's one of the issues with uh right now in Japan with English education is uh when kids go see movies in like American movies, which they don't even do that often, unless it's like a, you know, the new Disney movie or something. They all see they all see it dubbed into Japanese, you know. Um and as a result, uh there's just not there's so much Japanese media, which for me was a blessing when I was learning Japanese. But because there's so much Japanese media, uh I don't think Japanese people really have the need to be exposed to English media because they already have the media. And I think that actually is a huge detriment to their ability to kind of naturally pick up English.
Right.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's the same for the rest of the world also. Many countries in Europe only have dubbed version of everything. And when I was growing up in Denmark, we didn't have dubb version of anything, except for cartoons, you know, and, you know, whatever, cartoons. You're so young anyway. But um I I keep being asked like, why do you have such amazing English ability in in northern countries? And I I I honestly, I go to the dubbed every time because I I watched, you know, when I was a a kid, I used to watch Knight Rider. I used to watch, uh, Baywatch, of course, uh Friends was was very popular. Um and it was just all in English. So that was subtitles, but it was all in English. So I got a lot of input. And that's really what I that's what I think did the trick. Also games, of course, were never dubbed. So when I played games, we always had to learn the language or otherwise we didn't understand what the game was about.
But um when I see countries that have very weak English skills, they usually dub everything as well. So like you say, they just don't get any uh they don't get any English. Even if you have great English skills, they will have a very bookish, thick accent because they never hear the language. Um so that's that's kind of sad. But I hope that I hope that they're going to see the value of not dubbing everything soon. But I don't know, it's it's a tough one because it's such a cultural part of the of the whole thing. Also if you start not dubbing, you're sort of saying, well, their culture is more important than ours in a way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
So.
People want to enjoy the movies, too, right? You know. And I guess that for a lot of people, um I mean, since I was watching subtitled movies from a from a fairly young age, I don't really feel it so myself. But I think that for a lot of people, you know, they just want to sit down and enjoy like a really cool movie. And they don't want to have to read uh, you know, text on the bottom of a screen, you know. They just want to be able to just kind of interact with this cool movie without having to go through the, you know, the effort of of reading the subtitles and stuff. Which, you know, if that if if you're just after entertainment, it makes sense that that'd be the case. But it really is just so hugely detrimental.
And this is something that I also, you know, like um especially in the past like probably two years or so, I've been really thinking about more and more about how much uh how much like that sort of media. I mean, it's I think it's really interesting that um that so that as you said, like every so many things get dubbed in much of Europe and other countries. Um because especially in countries that don't produce enough media themselves to really fulfill what the, you know, the audience needs, that, you know, obviously, so much ends up getting imported from America. But that, you know, if they weren't dubbing it, it would that would be such like an incredible gold mine for the English education systems. It's really, you know, it's a mix of the fact that, man, I wish that that wasn't the case. Um because it would really increase everyone's ability to speak, and probably get them more involved in language learning as well, I think. But the on the other hand, you know, like people want to make money, and also people want to just enjoy their movies. So like, I can't get too angry, even though as a language learner, like, I really I I I think that dubbing is is a is a concept to me, it's ridiculous. But to other people, that's how they enjoy movies. So I can't really, you know, fault them for that too much, I guess.
Yeah, it's such a cultural difference that it it's also hard to understand, I guess, when obviously I never saw anything dubbed. And then suddenly I saw how it looked when they they gave like Arnold Schwarzenegger a German voice. And I was like.
Oh, yeah.
How can you watch this? I mean, but then they told me some German people like, yeah, but the thing is, it's the same guy doing Arnold's voice in every Arnold movie.
Yeah, right? Yeah, that's the thing.
So so the dubbing institute has like, you know, 20 guys or whatever, and 20 girls. And so they they associate that voice with Arnold in every one of Arnold's movies. So it it's very elaborate. And they are actually also really good at dubbing, like they they really match the the space with the with the translation really well. Whereas I think the Russian way of dubbing is completely ridiculous.
With the lector or whatever it's called.
I cannot understand. Yeah, it's like I can hear both. Can you make it stop, please? And I first I thought it was a.
It's a really it's a really strange thing.
What how do you I mean, Russian people must be super intelligent in a way to be able to hear two things at once or be able to shut down.
Maybe they want.
They they able to shut off one audio source, or are they do they listen to both?
Like are you mentally I I always wonder if like, you know, people are used to watching it that way. Are you mentally associating the the voice under, you know, the original voice that you're kind of hearing. Are you associating that that's like the voice of the character, while while transmitting what the lector or whatever is saying into that voice? Or how does it work? I'm not sure.
Yeah. I couldn't watch it for five seconds. I I downloaded a Friends episode. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to watch Friends in Russian. That's good practice. Get more input. And I was like, two minutes in. I'm like, I can't watch this. It's too messy. I just don't get it. It's.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It doesn't work unless you're used to it.
I'm just don't get it.
Unfortunately, you know, that would be such a gold that would be like such a great source of of like, you know, cuz I the only the only reason I like it's funny that I said that for me dubbing is ridiculous and I don't like it. But the fact is that now that I study all these other languages, um dubbed version of films really are one of those really I actually get to hear that language, especially Disney movies because honest like, you know, it's actually still pretty fun to watch it like an animated movie can still be pretty fun. No, Disney movies are clever, especially the newer ones because they have, you know, they have a a basic story that a child can understand and appreciate. But they have all these jokes and underlying layers that you really need to be very old or not very old, but you definitely need to be an adult to understand all those jokes.
No, Disney movies are clever, especially the newer ones because they have, you know, they have a a basic story that a child can understand and appreciate. But they have all these jokes and underlying layers that you really need to be very old or not very old, but you definitely need to be an adult to understand all those jokes.
Some sort of maturity, yeah.
Yeah, exactly, like the for instance, Frozen is a great movie that I really like. But it's if you look at the demographics, it's mostly enjoyed by girls in the age of, you know, four to eight or something. So it's not exactly the most interesting to be associated with, but it's just the humor is so clever that I I there are a lot of jokes in it that I understand that the girls would never even begin to understand in in as a as a five-year-old or whatever. Um, so so I totally agree with you. I I think anime movies are are great. Also the Pixar movies, uh.
Oh, yeah. Well, all the sort of, yeah.
Oh, yeah. Well, all the sort of, yeah.
And entertainment that's made for, it really is like, you know, sometimes kids' entertainment is called family entertainment. When a lot of stuff that's made for kids is really clearly aimed just at kids. But, but mostly Disney movies, Pixar movies, stuff like this, you know, it really is family. I would also say uh like uh the Ghibli movies. I don't know if you know Hayao Miyazaki or whatever like Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away. It's like these really famous Japanese anime movies that are really quite incredible. Um, but you know, like these movies that are really made for families, and that they're really made that everyone at any age can really enjoy and associate with aspects of it. You know, it's not dumbed down to to great of an extent or any way. And so these are like great movies to watch for uh learning language because it's really they're entertaining movies. You enjoy the movies. You want to you want to watch the movies. Um, and also the language isn't going to be so complex as to, you know, really limit your ability, especially if you're like a, you know, a recent learner of a language to understand anything. But it's also aimed at like, you know, enough of a general audience that there's there's there's interesting things being said. Um and it's worth listening to. It's not incredibly simple, and it there will be some very interesting things which you start to figure them out. It's really worthwhile to watch these movies, listen to these movies in other languages. And uh more so than uh than maybe more so than like some more like uh adult-oriented sort of movies or like very, very kitty-oriented movies.
Yeah, for sure. I think the best would probably be if you could get some good dubs of the the Friends of the of the world. I I don't know what kind of shows would be like that. But that's a very social and very, I guess, casual kind of so speech where they, you know, they're just friends hanging out. And that kind of the the the lines they speak are very uh some you would find yourself. Whereas if you watch Game of Thrones or something, I mean, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah, half of the stuff you would never, ever, ever, ever use in real life. And.
Yeah, I I I read some of Game of Thrones. Actually, I have my copy of Game of Thrones in Japanese sitting right next to me. But like, you know, it's just so ridiculous reading a book like that in a foreign language because already so much of it is like very uh jargony, you know, like uh like words that really like, you know, only have a place within that universe. So, you know, you try to like there's there's not as much of a point of reading it in another language necessarily, because so much of it is just going to be these words that that really don't have any place in the language that you're trying to read it in, you know. So.
Yeah, it's uh.
Yeah, it's uh.
Self-contained. And it can be quite a frustrating sometimes. Uh I read Harry Potter books originally in English. And then for some reason, I got hold of the Danish copy at some point. And I was just like, wow, they changed all the names. And.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really weird. Like they made like the like the names in English are quite are kind of clever and they make sense. And in Danish, they just became sort of almost a mockery of these names. And.
Yeah.
I was like.
In English, it's like kind of like a there's like a subtle joke in so many of the names, but it's very subtle. It's fun, it's subtle. But in the translations, if you're attempting to to mimic that style or even maybe worse, directly translate that style, it just doesn't work, right? You know.
It doesn't. And so for me, that completely ruined it. And I I just prefer the originals now. And I guess that's also a a point of the language learning is media is supposed to be enjoyed in the original language, I think. I mean, I I can't say I can't say if there are better dubs out there sometimes than the original, but I think at least for English entertainment, I think that you'll get the most out of the original. And uh maybe one day the Russians will dub as like the rest of the world.
Yeah.
And uh.
I know I I I was on a I was on an Aeroflot uh flight like a year ago coming back from it was Israel, Jordan, and Russian. I think it was the flight back from Russia. And I did find Game of Thrones dubbed into Russian, and it was actually dubbed.
Wow, nice. Okay.
Yeah, it was actually dubbed. I got to hear I got to hear like Tyrion Lannister with like this incredibly deep Russian voice. And uh.
Nice.
That was a lot of fun. So like, I guess it does exist out there. And I I you know, I I recently found a copy of like uh the old uh I'm trying to remember maybe it was DreamWorks movie uh Anastasia, like the animated movie Anastasia. I found that dubbed into Russian, and it was like actually dubbed as well. So since kids can be uh since like they actually do it properly and that's in Russia. So it's pretty fitting as well. You know, fun little things like that is incredibly useful.
Oh, nice.
Anastasia is one of those uh 20 names you can name your child these days in Russia. So you'll find lots of Anastasias around.
That's pretty that's pretty funny. Yeah.
That's pretty funny. Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's I love I love like I said, I love the Frozen Frozen movie. I watched that a lot in different languages. And the.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I I know that movie better in Hebrew. I know every single songs in Hebrew. Um, and then secondly, I know them in Japanese because uh the entire country is obsessed with uh what they call uh, what is it like, Anna and Anna and the Snow Queen.
Oh, nice.
As they call it, right? Like Anna and the Snow Queen. Yeah.
Yeah, that's really funny.
Yeah, that's really funny.
That's really funny that every title is kind of like an interpretation of the original. Whereas Frozen is really ambiguous. It can mean anything. But in Russian, they they call it the Frozen Heart, which is.
Oh, really? That's an interpretation.
Oh, really? That's an interpretation. That's kind of like a that's a evocative. I like that. Yeah. And.
Oh, really? That's an interpretation. That's kind of like a that's a evocative. I like that. Yeah. And.
What's it called? I think. I don't remember what the Danish is. They might just call it the Frozen because we're such an anglicized country that it doesn't matter. You can just call it anything. But I've seen some of the other other titles and they're very different.
Okay. All right. So it's close.
Okay. All right. So it's close. Yeah, that's pretty close. The German is the Ice Queen completely unfrozen. I think, unfroren, that sounds like unfrozen to me, but my my German is a little bit sketchy, so.
That that title sounds kind of um questionable.
Yeah. And the French is the Queen of the Snow. Uh.
Okay, you know, there's like that theme because it's kind of based off of the Snow Queen or whatever. Right. Exactly. And I see all the Spanish countries have a Frozen adventure. Frozen a French a Frozen adventure, I think it's called Una Aventura Congelada, that sounds like a Frozen adventure.
Okay, you know, there's like that theme because it's kind of based off of the Snow Queen or whatever. Right. Exactly. And I see all the Spanish countries have a Frozen adventure. Frozen a French a Frozen adventure, I think it's called Una Aventura Congelada, that sounds like a Frozen adventure.
Okay, okay. For the entire Spanish speaking uh part of the podcast is making fun of me now. But that's okay.
Okay, okay. For the entire Spanish speaking uh part of the podcast is making fun of me now. But that's okay.
Um, I'm sure I'm sure all your fans are appreciating.
Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure all these really listeners are making fun of my accent as well, so don't worry about it.
I'm sure I'm sure all these really listeners are making fun of my accent as well, so don't worry about it.
That's great. Um, so the the last thing I really wanted to talk to you about is is you've had this very rich in input approach to learning Japanese. And I just want to know how are you making that for your other languages? Because obviously, we often talk about the importance of input. But I often find it hard to do this kind of input, because it can seem a little bit tedious when you don't understand anything. It might be hard to create that inversion environment in your hometown. Like if you're in, I don't know, Tulsa, Oklahoma or something, and you want to study, um, I don't know, French. It might be hard to to create that immersion that gave you the success of Japanese. So, so how are you making your experience of Japanese work for you in in the new languages you're learning?
Well, you're bring you bring up a really good point there, which is that um like I said before, Japan has this huge, huge media uh which produces such a huge amount of content that even though a lot of it is like not great, there are a lot of things that are really good. Um and so it's very easy to be engaged with Japanese media, as long as you're not completely adverse to like, you know, animation or something like that. Because there's, you know, even if you're not a big fan of that sort of stuff, there's at least going to be a few things, a few shows that are so good, they have these real crossover appeal. Um and there's so much of that sort of stuff that I think it's very easy to find a lot of content that is really worth watching.
And I think that for a lot of languages, especially like, one of my languages, uh and it's in fact, one of the languages I focused I focused the most on in the past year was Mongolian. And like, Mongolian has such an incredibly like such an incredible dearth of of media content that you can easily access uh as an English speaker at least. Um that I really had a incredibly hard time uh listening to enough to be able to really communicate properly once I was there. Like I was able to once I I studied I did like a three, four-month long like language mission with Mongolian before I went to Mongolia last winter break. Um and uh I learned a lot. Like I really I think it's probably like my honestly, it's probably like my third or fourth best uh foreign language. At least when I speak it, and at least in terms of what I know of it. Like, I I learned like, you know, like 1,000 words, and I learned like all the cases, and I actually managed to do, you know, like more than I've done with a lot of other languages. Um that's a pathetic example, I'd say.
Um but, um once I got there, I really, you know, I could say what I wanted to say. I could say a lot of things. Um but my ability to like have like a real back and forth, uh was limited because I just had such a hard time understanding what people were saying because it was very difficult to find content. But what I was able to find and after especially coming back from Mongolia is, you know, really using YouTube to find music at the very least, which I think is probably the easiest way that people can engage with like listening to the language, music, and especially with YouTube. Um if you can figure out how to search in the language that you like your target language. Uh even just like a like a simple set phrase like, you know, lyrics of song this, or, you know, like just figure out like or just like put in like, you know, Mongolian songs in Mongolian into YouTube and so much will pop up, pop music or whatever. You know, listening to that is really helpful. And starting to starting to recognize the way things are said even from music is just so incredibly useful and trying to find some sort of like, you know, there I don't think there is a there's only like three major Mongolian language movies that have ever come out of Mongolia into like, you know, like they they have their own, yeah, they do have their own movies, but like nothing that has ever been made available to people who aren't in Mongolia except for like, um two like two documentary type like kind of semi-documentary, not really documentary drama movies. I think uh I think one's the Tale of the Weeping Camel, the other one is um Cave of the Yellow Dog. And then there's the Russian-made movie Mongol about Genghis Khan. Uh and those are like the only three Mongolian language movies that you can easily get access to. And um the Mongol movie, it's a Russian-made movie, and almost every single actor in that movie is well the the guy who plays Genghis Khan is I think it's uh Asano Tadanobu, who's like a really famous Japanese actor. Yeah, right? And like every other actor is like Chinese. And it's all in Mongolian. But it's all just phonetically memorized Mongolian, right? So it's like completely, you know, like the delivery is not exactly good or helpful if you're trying to learn it. So, um Mongolia is like the most extreme example. But I still managed to like I managed to search and I managed to finally find content on YouTube. And I've been listening to that.
Um for other things, you know, I just really try to I try to find and and sometimes just force myself to kind of watch movies from the different languages. I look into what people actually have enjoyed and recommend. Um, you know, with with Hebrew, something that's been incredibly helpful is uh I use I use a radio, an online radio app. And I just listen to uh there's an Israeli station called Galgalatz, which is like the most popular station in Israel as a really big cultural impact apparently as well. And they play an amazing mix of both like kind of Western English, and sometimes French, and Spanish music, and also. Yeah, and also like the other 50% is Hebrew. Um, and they also play like music from like every single, you know, like decade as well. So you'll never really know what you're going to hear when you turn it on. But it's always going to be like either like the most recent cool stuff from Israel or from around the world. Or it's going to be something from the 60s from England, or, you know, some like Eurovision song from the 70s. You never know what you're going to get. But it's constantly that sort of station. It constantly both gives you a lot of cool stuff that you you know from your own culture maybe to listen to, especially if you come from an English-speaking culture. Um, and then also lots and lots of really great uh Hebrew stuff as well. And that has really kept my my Hebrew going, even though I haven't been actively studying it for a long time since I've been studying other languages. So I try to combine combine all these things to keep that input happening.
And like, you know, like you said, you know, like maybe if you're in Tulsa or something, it's difficult to find like someone speaking French. But believe me, I live in uh I live in Fukushima Prefecture in uh the Toku North region of Japan. And uh where, you know, even like Japan only like two 2.5% of the population or something is is is not a non-Japanese citizens. Um, but most of those people are in either the big cities or they're in the big manufacturing areas depending on what sort of work they do or whatever. Um, so otherwise, Japan is like really one of the most homogeneous like, you know, monolingual countries there is in a lot of ways. And so like, and I'm studying like Mongolian and Russian and uh, you know, and and French and uh, you know, Hebrew. I mean, like these are not languages I have any opportunity to use at all. Like Arabic as well, right? Like these are not languages, you know, maybe if I learned Portuguese because there's actually a lot of Brazilians who came here in like the, yeah, like um that's an entirely different story. But like, even in the area where I live, there there aren't like I think there's maybe a few like three of them. I'm going to hunt them down or something, which I'd have to like literally hunt them down to even find them, you know.
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
So, like uh I mean, like, I don't know, I mean, ridiculous and in a bad way. It's a beautiful aspect of the culture, but it is like insane. Because I mean, kids, you know, kids are still learning how to write their own alphabet well into middle school and even high school. Um, but I don't, you know, it it's really a really cool aspect once you start to get into it and figure it out. It becomes kind of like knowing Greek and Latin roots for English. It gives you so much more meaning when you learn a word, you're like, oh, I get why this word is this word because these two characters, which have their own separate meetings, they come together like this. You know, like really cool. And, you know, if you're reading things for younger people or even like comics for like teenagers, they have these little Furigana phonetics stuff on top of the Kanji. You can just read that. And uh so you don't need to throw yourself directly into these texts that are literally impossible to read if you're anywhere near a beginner. So don't be intimidated by that. It can be, you know, once you start getting, it can be really enjoyable. Even though it'll still be a long slog to really be able to be fully, you know, functioning with Kanji. Right.
But still, you try to create that that inversion feeling by by listening or or watching. I I I think the only problem I have with that, and I I definitely try to do the same. The only problem is when I'm early in my studies, I remember trying to do it for Russian. I would get really disinterested really quickly.
But yeah, that happens.
Well, I I try to honestly, I well, it depends on how far I feel I am along with the language. But like, I think there is a lot of value in using subtitles. I think a lot of other people who learn languages might disagree with me on that. But I can definitely help you keep the focus. And it's the amount of input that matters. It's not so much, I guess, how deeply you study each individual word. I mean, you just need to hear it a lot of times.
Um, I mean, obviously, I think it probably worked a little bit better when I was younger and had more of that kind of brain elasticity or whatever that um I was able to just hear it while reading it and then just get so much of it back then. But I still can do it. Maybe not to the exact same extent. But as long as you're actively trying to mentally like, I know some people read subtitles and they stop listening to the language being spoken. Like, it's just in the background, it's a sound. They associate with the character, but they aren't listening to the words. And you do kind of have to mentally do this. You need to actually make the effort to to both be listening, actively listening, while actively reading, and trying to figure out these connections. I'm sure some people also say that often subtitles are are, you know, they're they're not accurate as well, which is quite often true. But once you start to make these connections of patterns, you know, maybe the subtitle didn't say the exact same thing as if this subtitle when this phrase was said, but you start to recognize that the general meaning of that phrase, which honestly, I think in some cases can be more useful than a direct translation. Even if they're different translations, or even like some sort of strange translation where like the the translator was really taking some liberties to try to make it more like natural English or whatever. Um, once you start to realize the general feeling of what that that phrase meant, that can give you almost more of a natural understanding, I think, than than directly translating can really do. Um, this is something that has been really helpful to me in uh in every language I've studied as long as I've actually actively tried to like watch the media and use subtitles at the same time.
No, that's actually a very, very interesting idea because when you create subtitles, obviously, often you're very constrained in terms of how much space you have.
Absolutely.
So when you do a translation a subtitle, it's often very not a very natural way of saying things, or.
It's it's like truncated, you know.
Yeah, or you use a different vocabulary because it's it's just a you have less space. But you're right in the sense that if you explore different ways of saying the same thing, you'll start you'll suddenly instead of translating word for word, you're suddenly translating meaning into meaning. Yeah. Which can be quite powerful. I I I what's your experience with using foreign subtitles or watching a Russian movie with Russian subtitles for instance?
Um, I think that's also incredibly useful. Um, that's what I've done with a lot of Hebrew movies. And I've managed to do it with some other some other languages as well. Um, I do that with honestly that when I when I watch a Japanese movie nowadays, usually I don't I I really don't need subtitles either way at this point. Um, for the most part, I guess it depends on the topic. But um, even even if I'm understanding 95% of what's being said on the screen, if I throw on those subtitles, and I actively read the subtitles while it's being spoken, I will catch new words and phrases that I completely missed. You know, when you're understanding 90% of something, the parts that you don't understand, you kind of sometimes mentally just just ignore them because you got enough of the context that you understood what was being said, even if you didn't actually understand this word or this word. Um, when you're reading subtitles, it makes you really recognize those parts that you're missing. And I like to you I mean, I find that incredibly useful to, you know, just kind of pick those, you know, pick up those words that I'd missed and then really figure those out. And um nowadays, when when I'm as you know, I had the advanced state of the language that I'm at with Japanese. That's really one of the best ways that I have to continue learning is to just engage in like that sort of fun media. But also take what whatever whatever there is there that I don't know and try to make sure that I know it for the next time. Um, and I also found that very useful when I was like first getting back into Hebrew. I think my copy of Frozen had the Hebrew subtitles somehow. That was actually, you know, I mean we're coming back to Frozen. Obviously, Frozen is like the God send for all language learners in the world.
No, that's actually a very.
That was actually, you know, I mean, we're coming back to Frozen. Obviously, Frozen is like the God send for all language learners in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, and that was that actually, you know, I mean, we're coming back to Frozen. Obviously, Frozen is like the God send for all language learners in the world. Um, so yeah, I think that engaging in the culture, um, really listening to the language, uh engaging with the media is, you know, and really starting to understand how some degree of how like the thought process of the people here work, really helps with the language as well because the language is so ingrained with the culture itself. And don't be too intimidated by by the characters. You'll you'll if you try, you'll you'll get it. You'll get it. I I believe in you.
I do love Frozen. Yeah.
Right. Well, I like the idea of of characters, honestly. That would be one of my reasons for learning uh Chinese or Japanese or another character-based system because it's it's just such a radically different way of of approaching written form. And for me, it would be a lot of fun to just memorize the the different characters. And and be able to make out the connections. Because often often there at least for Chinese as I've experienced, it's it's a very logical connection. Uh the way the uh the characters are put together to form compounds and and and meaning. So if you like you say, if you understand some characters by themselves, then you can also usually interpret what they mean together and.
Yeah, even though in Japanese, you might have no idea how that word is said, you can kind of figure out what it is. Right. It is like a really it is like a I mean, like if if you like learning languages, and you like and like beyond, you know, like if if if for you like just learning quickly is your goal, then it can be frustrating. But if if the the process of learning and understanding and tackling something complex is appealing, I think Japanese is a great language to learn. Um because that they can be very invigorating to to learn Kanji and add to that understanding. It's it's a very long process, but like, you know, it really is like a incredible skill once you get it and it's really really cool to learn.
And I guess my one and only additional thing that I forgot to mention, I guess, is that, you know, Japan like um, you know, Japan does have a really uh there's a lot of really great opportunities to come to Japan as both a tourist and to work here. Uh especially if you're a native English speaker or a high-level English speaker. Um, so if if people want to learn Japanese, I really recommend uh for me, I know that immersion was incredibly helpful in all the forms that I had it. Um, and if people want to come here for, you know, a year and uh especially if if teaching is something that appeals to you, and you feel that there's value in that, something you'd like to do. I think there's a lot of opportunities for that. Um, probably more so than in almost any other country in the world in some ways. Uh, and so that's also a great thing to be able to do. If that's interesting to people, then they should definitely look into coming here in some form.
Oh, that's cool. I mean, if people are sitting back in Tulsa and they're watching the animes and there.
Oh, that's cool. I mean, if people are sitting back in Tulsa and they're watching the animes and there.
I don't know why I mentioned Tulsa.
I don't know why I mentioned Tulsa. I just I just thought of a random city.
I'm sure I'm sure all your Tulsa fans are appreciating.
I'm sure I'm sure all your Tulsa fans are appreciating. Oh, yeah. The Tulsa fans are like, whoa, he mentioned our city.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, but if if they are sitting there, it's good to have some kind of strategy to how to make it uh into real life. Because sometimes you're thinking, how can I afford going to Japan or China if I'm learning these languages? But the English learning market is is something to look into. I mean, you can if you're a native English speaker, you can almost get you're almost guaranteed a job. And I mean, these aren't exactly, you know, amazing amazingly well-paid usually or amazing working conditions, but the experience, and if you want to just go and experience the country for a year or two, I'm sure it's more than more than a good good conditions. It's I mean, it's good enough, right? It's not.
Yeah, I mean like everything is what you make of it. I think when especially when it comes to living abroad, and if you're trying to learn a language, um but you put into it, you'll get back. Uh and uh I mean, this is like if we got into into like the conditions of English teaching here or like uh how that can affect, you know, this sort of job, how that can affect your language learning. So that's an entire another topic that we could go on for like another hour and together.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Uh, and so that's also a great thing to be able to do. If that's interesting to people, then they should definitely look into coming here in some form.
And I I'll I'll recommend people instead check out the other uh podcast episodes that where we talk about uh studying uh not studying abroad, but teaching abroad. But in in general, I just wanted to mention it, and and it's good that you brought it up as well. That we should you should have that as an open mind. You should keep it in mind anyway. Because some people just assume it's not possible and they don't think about it. But actually, it is um it is a possibility and it's not just Japan uh Japan. It's not just Japan, it's also, you know, a big part of the world actually have English programs that that are sort of built for, I guess, you can almost call them like au pair teachers in a way, because they're there for a very limited amount of time. Usually, these programs are kind of like exchange programs. And there's a big um they replace them quickly. They just go for a year or something. But of course, if you find your true calling, that's also a possibility. Like you, you can stay in the country and and live there forever.
It's true. There's a lot of people who come here and uh they think they're coming for one year, and uh, you know, 18 years later.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
There you go. Time flies. And speaking of time flies, um thank you so much for for coming on the show. And and I really appreciate you uh reaching out and and being willing to share your story. It's really motivating and inspirational to to me and and hopefully also to the the listeners.
Yeah, it's no problem. I was really happy to be able to talk with you. And uh, you know, I've really enjoyed your show for a while now. So I think you're doing uh the polyglot community a great service, and I hope I'm happy that I was able to, you know, be what a little tiny part of that somehow.
Oh, thank you so much. You're you're very modest. You did a great job.
Oh, thank you, thank you, sir.
All right. Thank you so much for listening to the Actual Fluency podcast. If you want to come onto the podcast and share your language learning story, don't hesitate to apply on actualfluency.com/guest. See you in the next one.