Jan van der Aa: Travel the world and learn languages

On this episode of the Actual Fluency podcast, I'm joined by Jan van der Aa. Jan and I talk about language learning while traveling the world.

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Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Actual Fluency podcast. I'm so happy you're listening in on this episode, which is number 23. And uh obviously, I'm very excited to have kept going this far. As I wrote in the post you might have seen, I have not yet, at least, missed putting out a podcast episode on a Friday, 8:00 p.m. CST, which uh it's called CST right now because we're on summertime. But I guess uh it's CAT some of the years as well. Um, but apart from that, everything is going well. I'm doing uh very well myself, and I hope you are doing well in language learning as well.

All right. Today I'm very happy to welcome onto the show, Mr. Jan van der Aa. Jan has been traveling the world, learning many languages, and he's been documenting the journeys on his blog, nonstop-traveling, uh Janvanderaa.com. And also on YouTube. So, Jan, how are you doing today?

Uh, hey, Kris, yeah, thank you for the lovely introduction. Um, today I'm doing quite well. It's nice weather here in the Netherlands. Um, yeah, well, I'm I'm ready for the show. So, uh, very excited to be here. Yeah.

Let's go. You pumped? Let's go. All right. Of course, we met in uh Berlin for the Polyglot uh Conference. I wanna talk to you about that in in just a minute. But for those people out there who might not yet have heard of you, can you give sort of a little introduction, how did you start traveling the world and and learning all these languages? Well,

Yeah. Okay, so when I was 20, when I was in college, I got the opportunity to study abroad for one semester. Um, I had two possibilities. One was a program that I could do in in the states, and the other one was in China. And I always wanted to explore the world. So, I thought, America, okay, we know that. It's a Western culture. Um, I'd been to New York once before. So, I was like, why not going to the other side of the world? Why not going to China? Explore a new world.

Amazing. And uh how long was that semester? Was it a a quarter year?

It was only, it was only for one semester. So, that was five months. It was not that long. Um, but afterwards I got the chance to go on exchange to Indonesia. I did two summer semesters in Korea. Uh, I traveled a lot to Eastern Europe. Last year I spent a month in Brazil, and I will go back in a month. Um, I spent three months in Costa Rica where I learned Spanish. Um, yeah, I always try to combine traveling and and work, uh, but also yeah, to pick up a new language.

Of course. Because uh, you know, when people hear that you just decided, well, I'm gonna travel the world, of course, something has to pay for that. So,

Yes, exactly.

You you found a way to combine those two, didn't you?

Mhm. Well, in be that had not always been the case. Um, in the beginning I was a student and I had a part-time job in a local supermarket here. I worked at the uh vegetable department. Um, well, it was fun, but I could not really make enough money to to travel to to travel the world, and especially because it was only a part-time job, right? But it was something that I could combine with um with my studies at the time.

Social estate, man.

Social estate, yeah. So, yeah, I managed to uh have enough income to survive in China, eating noodles every day, and not taking taxis, I bought buses. Actually, like if you have five or 600 euros a month, that's enough to live in in Asia. But it's not enough to to travel the world and and do the things you like, so.

No, so what did you do?

So, after I graduated, well, no, before I graduated, I did an internship in uh was in a company in in Hong Kong. A Dutch company. And then my boss one time, he asked me if I could translate the company website to ten languages, because he knew that I traveled a lot before. I said, well, of course, I I don't speak all these languages myself, but I know a lot of people that are native and that speak English very well. So, they helped me out and I paid them for it. And then in a few days, we translated a whole website for a very low budget to ten languages.

Wow. Cool. And of course, most importantly, it was independent, uh well, it was location independent.

Yeah, it's location independent, exactly. Um, in the beginning I was using my, or I was using my friends. Of course, that's the wrong words. But I worked with my, I worked with my friends um that were not professional translators.

Great. So, you kinda uh upgraded the company from a little uh hobby business maybe to to a serious, you know,

Yeah, to a serious professional business because well, that's what you need to become if you want to if you want to have those big trade companies as your client, right?

Yeah. You need to be professional, definitely. All right, that's great. And I'm sure a lot of people have these opportunities to do any kind of uh location independent work. I mean, myself I'm I don't have a diploma in in Danish or English, but I'm I've, you know, been teaching.

You're very fluent, huh?

Oh, thank you. Um, you should hear my Danish, no. Um, you know, teaching languages on iTalki or anywhere, you know, there's such a huge demand, and if you have a language that's popular, then you can just go in and get, you know, 50 hours a week if you wanted to.

Exactly.

So, that's just an example. But you obviously did translating which is another point. You know, people can get employed by companies that require online, you know, moderation and stuff. Yeah.

Exactly.

Just just just to let people know, I guess is is that you don't have to work in a supermarket to fund your, if you want to travel, you know, you can find a lot of work on the internet.

Yeah, exactly. I I think the thing is that you just need to be very good at something. So, if you're good at teaching, or if you're good at English, yeah, then you can do online teaching, or um, well, if you're good with languages, you can work as a translator, but you can also start your own translation business, like I did. Um, if you have the language skills, as you mentioned before, um, you can also do online moderation. Um, yeah, there are tons of examples. Maybe you're a good web designer. Well, that's also something that you can do location independently, right?

Graphics or

Graphics, um, yeah, you're a good photoshopper, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Also.

Voiceover work and uh yeah.

Voiceover work.

That's cool. A lot of video games actually need uh often need people with, you know, a native language other than English to to do the voiceovers in that in that language. So, lots of opportunity, but let's get on with um the polyglot gathering in Berlin, which I of course, found amazing, and it was a great pleasure to meet you and and I was listening to your talk as well. What did you think of the event? Did you have fun?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I felt like uh the second event, I mean the the first one was in Budapest last year, right? And it was all very new for everyone, and I'd never met all these people before. And yeah, but then this time, I mean, for me, it felt much more relaxed, and I was like, hey, there is, there is this guy, there is this guy. Oh yeah, I know you and you know, it was it was very um, yeah, comfortable. And I I found it relaxed.

Right. Exactly.

Yeah. And it's it's very nice to meet them all once a year, um, to learn from them, to hear their stories, to um, to listen to their talks. That's that's that's a great thing. So,

Did you practice uh a lot of languages or did you,

Yeah, all of them.

Working? Okay.

Yeah, no, no. Of course, no, I practice all my languages. Yeah, especially like Cantonese, it's always fun. Right. Um, yeah, yeah, uh, Mandarin. I did some Indonesian, some some Japanese. I'm not very good at Indonesian and Japanese, too, but you know, it's it's fun to practice. It's always nice to.

Well, you did a video of Japanese.

Yeah, I did one. I did one. It worked out. It's not that, it worked out. It worked out pretty well in the video.

Yeah. And were you were you impressed by how many people had an interest in Asian languages specifically when we were in the middle of Germany or do you think that's quite normal? I I thought a lot of people had, you know, either Chinese or Japanese or Korean, I guess.

Um, if I was surprised, yeah, I think so, but on the other hand, you know, all the people that go that go to the gathering, they are interested in in learning languages. And I think, yeah, Mandarin a language like Mandarin is a language that's I think you can say that it's getting more and more popular in in in the community, not only in our community, but also like language learners in general. So, well, maybe I was not very surprised because I know a lot of Mandarin learners, but I was happy to I was happy to meet them. Yeah, for sure.

Cool. And and of course Mandarin was the first language you got when you got to your intern no not internship exchange program.

Yeah, exactly.

So so that's one of your strongest languages today.

Um, yeah, you can say so.

What do you think of um people, you know, I guess the problem with Mandarin, I think, and it's changing a little bit now, but I think the problem was before that it's like, oh, it's Chinese. It's so mysterious and it must be really difficult.

Yes.

And of course, the tonal aspects and kind of the pronunciation will be difficult, relatively speaking, but then you get the easy grammar, right? So, maybe people are just discovering now that, oh, it's just another language. It's not this mythical being of,

Mhm.

you know, is that is that true, you think?

Um, yeah, I I I've experienced that a lot of people find it very hard to learn Mandarin at the beginning. It's all those tones and the strange intonation, um, the vowels that are hard to pronounce. It's quite an obstacle for for most language learners. So, yeah, I I I think that's often the reason why people say Mandarin. Now, I've tried to learn Mandarin, but it's too hard. I gave up because the beginning, it's quite hard. I have to admit that.

So, what do you do? What what's your What's your top tip for a new Mandarin learner to kinda get over that hump?

Um, yeah, well, what do what do I do? So, what I did, and it's also my tip for new Mandarin learners is don't focus too much on the characters in the beginning, but focus on the pronunciation of the syllables and the tones. Um, yeah, that's that's what I did. So, if they, for example, the word car in Chinese is "chē", you know, it's it's quite a hard sound for not Mandarin speakers to pronounce "chē". They say like, you have to smile, you know, when you pronounce a sound, and you have to open your mouth a little bit, and they say "chē".

Right. So, get some help from the beginning, basically.

Yes. But then afterwards, like when you know how to pronounce all these tones, and when you know all these syllables, then you can learn by yourself. Then you can learn by yourself. Then it's good to talk in a while with uh, to speak in a while with a native speaker, you know, for the for the rhythm, so you can um, yeah, to make sure that you that you make that you pronounce everything clearly and correctly. Um, you can have them to correct you, but yeah, that that's that's enough, I think. I I then you just need to speak, to speak. Once you know the basics, you just need to speak, to speak, and to learn new words.

Right. Practice, practice, practice. And,

Practice, practice, practice.

And this immersion kind of technique is something you also mentioned in in your videos that that's what you do, uh probably most famously the Portuguese example. But you really emphasize the fact that you really just speak, speak, speak.

Mhm. Yeah, exactly. Because

Yeah, I was just wondering if you could share that kind of uh uh process of you, let's say you you land in, uh whatever country, and you need to learn the language and you have this mission, it's you're not just going there for travels or anything. You just going there to learn the language and have fun. And you wanna use this speak approach. Do do you know kind of studying at home or or what kind of studying would you do?

Um, I do have some Assimil books that I read once in a time. But, yeah, I just read it when I'm bored, or when I when I'm on a bus or in an airplane. Um, I read those books in order to learn new words, to see, to get familiar with the structure of the of the sentences. But I don't I feel that the most I learn from speaking, and from asking questions to native speakers. So, that's only um, yeah, something I do. It's it's not where I put the focus in. I put the focus on on speaking, and having fun, and enjoy the country. Listen to music also.

Right. But if you know nothing, how do you get started?

Yeah, okay, so then you need to start with books. That was not the case for me in Portuguese because I knew some Spanish before. Um, for example, if I if if if I had to learn Arabic now, yeah, I could not do it by just flying to a country where they speak Arabic and just start speaking with the that won't work now. So, then in the beginning, yeah, then in in that case, I would start with with books and maybe a teacher on iTalki that can help me to um, well to learn the basics.

Right. So, so, you know, you need some kind of foundation, but if you have that, and I'm sure a lot of people have it.

If you have it. For example, if you speak Spanish. Yeah, exactly. For example, if you speak Spanish, you can go to Brazil, and you can you can just start, you know? And you can sometimes you can guess what they say, sometimes not, but you you have the basics. It's easy to start from there. And it's the same that if you speak those two languages uh and you want to learn Italian or or French, for example, you can pick it up. You can pick up a language uh really quick that way. You don't have to be very intelligent for that. I've been I've been a very bad language student at secondary school. So,

Right.

Yeah.

That seems to be a pattern as well, though. I mean, even the best and most famous polyglots in the world, someone like Benny Lewis is like, yeah, I didn't know any languages until I was 22.

Mhm. Yeah, exactly.

I English, right? Um, it shows you that you don't have to even consider how good or bad you were in school because it doesn't matter at all, you know?

Mhm. Yeah.

Different time.

Yeah, exactly. There are students, there are very good students, and they are good, I I had a a slide in my presentation in Berlin where I explained the differences between a good language learner and between a good language student.

I I saw that slide, by the way. I I think we should uh put a link to it in uh in the comments if you can get it somehow.

Yeah, let's do that.

Cuz that was an amazing uh thing actually.

And what I basically try to point out that you don't necessarily have to be a bad language learner if you are a bad student. I was a bad student. I did not worry about my tests. Um, I I did not learn a lot at home. I did not study at home. Okay, those are two different things, right? So, I I was very unsuccessful, but I'm a good learner because I'm interested in other cultures, I'm interested in other people. I like to ask questions. I like to travel. So, with all that motivation makes it much easier for me to learn the language. I mean, if they give me a book and they say learn that, learn this language. No, that won't work for me. You have to you have to know the reason why you want to learn it, right?

Right. And and,

And and I find that very important. Um,

Get some friends, native speakers.

Exactly. with all all of that, I I would be nowhere in language learning.

Right. So, that's a top tip, I think. I sometimes do top tips in the middle of the podcast. That is a

Yeah, I guess that's a top tip for bad students. You know, there is hope, just find a way that you can enjoy the language and and and go out there and and talk with the people and and open a book and yeah, that's that's what I did and and I'm quite sure that it would also work for many others.

Yeah, I well, I'm I'm 100% sure on that, definitely. But I like I like the fact that you're honest about that as well, and that's kinda been my philosophy with my blog as well, you know, just showing that even if you're really, really, really bad, then that doesn't have to stop you, you know? The learning aspects can always be be done, even though you can.

Mhm. Exactly. You you just need to change something in your learning process that didn't work before. Just make it work.

Yeah. Immersion yourself, get tutoring, you know, don't worry so much about the grammar books and the, you know, the school books.

Exactly. It's too, it's too boring. No, it's too it's too boring for me to only learn from books.

Yeah. Even some people do love books.

Yeah, exactly. And some people do love to learn from books, and well, I respect I respect that. They can be very successful language learners by only um, yeah, learning from books, but that doesn't work for everyone. And if that way doesn't work for you, I would say then try try another way.

Yeah, just keep going keep trying, you know. Be like Edison, try 10,000 things and then 10,000 and one might be uh might be the secret sauce to your success.

Yeah, exactly.

I see. And and and try and use that the way that works for you. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Great. So, you're back in the Netherlands, which is unusual, I suppose for a long period of time.

Um, yeah, for this year I'm, for this year I'm I've been in the Netherlands for only two months altogether or something in total. Yeah.

That's great. Where's the next adventure gonna take you? Do you know?

Um, yeah, to Brazil.

You got it.

So, within two weeks, yeah, I'll fly back to Brazil. I want to um, to focus on my Portuguese and my Spanish. I do speak these languages quite okay, but not very fluent. And I expect to, uh well, my mission is to to get to basic fluency in in three months in both.

Right. Are you staying there in Brazil for three months?

Um, probably two months in Brazil, and then one month that will be traveling in in other countries in Latin America where they speak Spanish.

Right. To test that as well.

To test that, yeah.

Oh, that's good. And do you have any uh kinda of upcoming languages you want to learn in in maybe a year or two or are you just settled on, you know, kinda keeping those active that you have learned already?

Um, yeah, I've like the goal that I want to be fluent very fluent in at least eight languages before my 30th. That will be in, well, I just turned 27, so that will be in three years. Um, those languages do not include Indonesian and Japanese. So, then there is also room for another language where I need to become fluent. And I guess it's gonna be uh French or Italian. I do also like Thai very much, by the way.

Yeah, I I like the sound of it. Particularly. I I don't know how it correlates to, you know, the sound of Chinese, but to me it sounds pretty cool.

Well, it's a it's a it's a tonal language as well. So, yeah, if you know a tonal tonal language like uh Cantonese or Mandarin, or maybe Vietnamese. Then it's it's it shouldn't be that hard to learn. At least that's what they say. I haven't tried.

Well, that's what they have to say, right?

Mhm.

All right, cool. So, what do you think, uh I just I just talked about the difference between adding and keep keeping languages kinda up to a point. Do you do any other thing uh other than obviously going back to the country, which of course, some people might not have the opportunity to do. Do you have any other kind of maintenance tips for languages? Do you listen to podcasts or

Yes, well, I had the um so, I'm helping a Chinese businessman here in the Netherlands to set up a a sales office. And he yesterday I put him on the on on the airplane back to China. So, I stayed with him for the last two weeks, and I only I spoke more Mandarin than Dutch in the Netherlands. So, that's uh, it's not that I always go to the country and speak the language there, but sometimes I also have visitors um or clients that come here, and I speak the language um I speak their language with them. So, that's another way that I maintain my languages.

Oh yeah. Not Dutch?

Um, I I do like, no, there are not so many like, for example, Spanish. There are not so many Spanish-Dutch translations online out there. So, no, I don't know.

There should be a market. Maybe that's a new market. Yeah. Do you have, have you found that that's a is it a problem the more languages you add that you kinda lose something from the previous or or do you find that you've had a pretty good balance with it?

That's a new market. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, yeah, Maybe that's a new market. Yeah. Uhm, Well, I think the thing is that you need to continue using them, right? So, for example, last year, I learned Japanese for three months. Um, but after those three months I haven't really maintained uh the language. So, I forgot a lot. Um, yeah, you need to keep practicing, at least. I would say at least once a week. So, yeah, now these days, I schedule one Japanese class a week. Um, my my progress is not um, it's it's going very slow, but at least I'm not forgetting what I knew.

Right. Yeah. And you keep you kinda keep fresh, keep it fresh by doing at least, I mean, one hour a week most people.

One hour a week, at least. Yeah.

All right. Great. Exactly. Fantastic. What was uh what was the hardest challenge you found with I guess you can pick from any of the languages you've learned. Did you have any kind of challenges that stood out where you really had to, you know, summon extra motivation or to to get over it or you you have you found it quite,

I think, yeah. I think it was Japanese. Because in all the languages that I've learned, I've quite um an environment in all those languages. That means that I've been to the country. Um, I know many friends that have that language as a native language. Um, or I know, or I watch series in which they speak the language. But for Japanese, it was quite unknown for me. I had been to Japan twice before, but I haven't got a Japanese environment, and that's something that I missed. And I'm still missing.

Oh, really? Right. And and I guess you already talked about your your best tip for overcoming and simply just get help.

Yeah, get help and and build a so, the tip for myself will be Jan, build a Japanese environment around you. I'm still working on that. I'm still working on that. For now, I put the focus on on Portuguese and Spanish. So, I I can't learn, I can't focus on on all the languages at the time at the same time.

That's impossible.

Uh-huh.

I mean, you can work on it later, but

I can work on it later. I will I will focus on Japanese maybe next year.

Right. All right, so we talked about a lot about language learning. Um, but maybe we could take a moment to talk about a bit of traveling or tips with that because a lot of people, I'm sure, and myself included, that's why I'm asking the question. Um, a lot of people are interested in going out traveling the world and just kinda going to a country. What what things do you need to do before you go? And what sort of things are important when you arrive? Do you have any kind of of tips there or can you just go on a plane, you're there and that's it?

Well, five years ago, I I used to buy Lonely Planets, and like plan everything in beforehand before I I go to the place. Now these days, especially when I go to countries where I speak the language, I feel much more relaxed, and I don't do all the planning uh in advance.

Right. To get the good price or

Yeah, or or or ask someone that has been to the country before, um maybe he has some things that he recommends you to go. Um, or or to do, or not to do.

Okay. Great.

Or maybe you know, because I've been on the road for quite a while now. And so, for me, it's often quite fun. I just upload a post or message on Facebook. We'll be in Brazil next month, who is out there? And there's always so many people out there that are happy to yeah, to guide you around. So, that's uh a benefit that you have well, you've been on the road for a bit longer.

Right. And they'll obviously the community as well. I mean, you've met so many people when you've been there once, I suppose, and also in the language learner community, you know, they're happy to connect and meet up.

It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. Like, for example, uh Alfred is an Alfred Mena from the Philippines. He's another friend that I that I met through the YouTube community in Makati, in in Manila, in the Philippines a few years ago. And then last year, I met him in Xiamen, in China. And then he was in Berlin as well. And who knows next time, you know, you you really keep or Connor Clyde, I think I've met him in in maybe eight or tenth countries, you know? You really keep meeting the same people everywhere. And and that's that's fun. You know, you never know. Before I was always like, okay, I'm not gonna meet this person in once ever again, but then, yeah, I don't know, for some reason,

Small world.

Small world. It's a small world. It's a small world.

Small world. I love that. Um, do you have any tips for people who come to the country and, you know, they're looking to do your kind of philosophy of throwing themselves in the language, maybe try to get some native friends. Without knowing anyone there, have you tried that before? With just going to a country without knowing anyone and just kinda how do you then go about, you know, speak, speak, speak if you don't have a,

Yeah, you have this, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You have this website called meetup.com. Um, so that's a very convenient website to find like uh language ex- exchange groups. Um, there also yeah, you can Google for language cafes as they call it, or language meetups, language exchange. I always start from there. You meet people that that are also interested in language learning.

Moses McCormick style. Do you know where time is the shop closest?

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one, you know? It's a good uh well, icebreaker as I guess they call it. And it's yeah, just approach people and and ask them anything. It's a good way to to start a conversation and well, to to to become friends.

Yeah. Okay, great. And I I really like that because I'm I I wanna go in a a few years time. So, I'm all I'm collecting all the information already. Hopefully other people can use it as well.

Mhm.

What what is your uh do you have kind of a goal with your language learning and travel? You said a- apart from, you know, wanting to speak eight languages when you're 30. Do you have a plan that, okay, when I'm this old, I'm gonna settle down in the south of France with a bottle of wine and my company? Or do you wanna keep traveling, just uh keep going?

Okay. So, uh I have the goal that I want to be able to speak ten languages before my thir- uh 30th, but but eight of them like fluent. So, that's uh that's a goal. Um, the other goal is that I want to travel to 100 countries before that age, before 30. So, in order to get to that target, I need to travel ten countries a year. That's I think last year I did 20 or something. So, that's you know, that should be feasible. Yeah, easy. Yeah, that should be feasible.

You're all over the world, man. You know, you went to Korea and

Um, yeah, exactly. That's uh that's the thing. Not only the other hand, I also have financial goals. I want to have a certain certain income, uh by the end of this year, by the end of next year. And when I get 30, I want to buy a house.

Yeah. Where would you want to live if you could choose? I mean, you've already been to many countries, so you had a lot of inspiration.

If I would buy a house, I would look where um, where the most in where the um, where the most interested interesting place um would be to buy a house in terms of um, yeah, the market and the real estate situation in the country at the time. So, where I would buy a house where I have the opportunity that the uh yeah, the market price goes up or something or where it's easy to rent it out. I would whether I consider that when I buy a house then then the location. Because I won't be there anyway. Maybe. Well, I don't know. I don't know.

Right. Some of the time.

Who knows what will happen. Yeah.

Yeah, some of the time. Probably.

It's an investment. Exactly. And that's good. It's it's it's, you know, if you have a house then it's at least something stable that I have then.

Right. At the moment I don't have much stability, so it's uh.

Yeah.

No, but that's the choice you make, isn't it? I mean, you maybe you like the instability.

Exactly. That's I find instability very exciting. It makes me also very flexible. And yeah, because I've had so many not only business opportunities, but also social opportunities, uh thanks to the flexibility that I have. So,

Yeah. Being at the right time at the right place.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's it. Fantastic.

It's a good lesson to to uh pass on, I feel like, just be at the right time at the right uh or the right time at the right place, and you'll you'll be successful.

Mhm. Now, so many of many opportunities out there in the world. And if you well, my vision is that if you're always at the same place with the same people, it might be very safe and stable, but you miss so much. Uhm, yeah, I don't want I don't want to miss that. So, no, for the next, at least for the next three years, I'll will I will continue doing what I do and then let's see what happens after that.

Well, that what what a wonderful way to end. Um, just uh just wanted to uh offer you the opportunity to give any shout-outs or, you know, share some of your URLs. I already said Janvanderaa.com. The uh blog where there's lots of interesting videos with uh

Exactly. If you are interested in in travel the world, uh learn a new languages, and meeting interesting people, I will say, take a look at my website. I also have a Facebook page called Nonstop Traveling where you can follow me. And uh well, see you there.

See you there. And you're obviously going to are you going to uh Novisad for the conference?

I will I will be in Brazil. So, unfortunately, I can't go.

Oh, right. But you will be in Berlin next year, I hope.

I will be in Berlin next year. Yeah, that's uh I should be able to be there. So, see you there, Kris.

Yeah. See you there. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show and and share your experience. It's been Thank you very much for the interview.

Thank you very much for the interview.

No problem. I'll see you. See you, Kris. Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Actual Fluency podcast. For more information, be sure to check out actualfluency.com. Until next time, enjoy learning and have a great day.