Susanna Zaraysky: Music and endangered languages
Kris Broholm interviews polyglot pioneer Susanna Zaraysky about her work with music and endangered languages. They discuss her books and a feature film focusing on Ladino, an endangered language. Susanna also shares insights from her personal language learning experiences.
September 1, 2018 · 1 hr 9 min
EP 127: Susanna Zaraysky: Music and endangered languages
0:00 / 1:08:51
Guest
Susanna Zaraysky
What You'll Hear
- 1 Welcome: Meet Polyglot Pioneer Susanna Zaraysky
- 2 Susanna's Language Journey: From Leningrad to Fluency
- 3 Languages as Music: Brain Science & Memory Boost
- 4 Practical Listening Tips: News, Kids, Karaoke
- 5 Accents & Identity: To Change or Not?
- 6 Saved by Language: Preserving Endangered Tongues
- 7 Disabilities & Language Learning: A Research Gap
- 8 Wrap-Up: Find Susanna & Future Projects
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
Where is Susanna Zaraysky from and how did she start learning languages?- 2m
What is the connection between music and language learning, as described in 'Languages as Music'?- 18m
What are practical tips for improving language learning through listening and pronunciation?- 27m
How can early language learners get input without getting bored, especially when they don't understand much?- 36m
What is the 'Saved by Language' project about?- 49m
How do people with disabilities learn foreign languages?- 1h 0m
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Hello everybody and welcome to Actual Fluency Podcast number 127. And this is the podcast for people who want to learn foreign languages, or just A foreign language as well, that's also a fantastic start and a great achievement. So, I'll be interviewing experts, super polyglots, uh you know, everyone who's basically got stories to tell about how to learn languages or what they got out of it. And if you have an interesting story about learning languages, don't hesitate to send me an email, Kris@ActualFluency.com. And uh you could be featured in an upcoming episode.
Today, I've got a real treat. It's a very special guest, Susanna Zaraysky. And Susanna is somebody I've been following for years and years. Uh she's been really uh one of the pioneers in the polyglot community when it all started to sort of uh unionize in a way uh grouping up online and also in the real world, where um the first polyglot conference took place in Budapest, Susanna was there. But she'd been doing YouTube videos before that. She's written multiple books and recently she's even done a feature film about an endangered language called Ladino. Uh, so obviously a lot of things to talk about with Susanna. Uh but just really excited to have her on the show.
Just want to give a quick shout-out to Glossika who's the show's sponsor. And they provide audio courses for more than 35 languages for the same monthly subscription fee. So, if you're interested in learning a lot of languages, and some quite rare languages as well, go check it out at TryGlossika.com. We can also get a free trial going, and if you wanna get the full package, you can upgrade to that monthly subscription where you get access to all the languages. But here's this week's episode with Susanna Zaraysky. Susanna, welcome to the show. Uh do you wanna get started with telling the listeners where you're from and uh how you got started in language learning?
Sure. And thank you, Kris, for inviting me to your podcast. So, my name is Susanna Zaraysky, and uh I was born in the former Soviet Union, in a city that no longer exists. It's called, it was called Leningrad, now it's called St. Petersburg. And I moved to the US when I was a child, so I grew up in California. And so my first language was Russian, because that's obviously what I spoke at home with my parents. And then I started with English when I was three.
And my parents always wanted my sister and I to learn foreign languages because back in the Soviet Union kids started in elementary school with foreign languages, whereas in the United States we start very late in middle school, which is around the age of 11 or 12. Uh, so I had a funny experience because my sixth-grade teacher, so I was 11 at the time, or 10 or 11, um, she had to sign a permission slip to allow me to take a foreign language once I moved to the seventh grade, which was a different school, middle school. And I I I I wasn't such a fantastic student in elementary school. I was pretty mediocre. And she wrote that I wasn't qualified to learn a foreign language. Little did she know. Yes. Um, and she was monolingual, so, I mean, what did she know about languages?
Uh, so my parents obviously were not happy with that, and they took that form, they went to a place where you make photocopies, and they took Wite-Out, which is that correction fluid that you use to put over something, to change, you know, your answer. To put Wite-Out on her answer, photocopied it, uh and then changed the response, and then turned that into the school. And so then, you know, I started learning French. And I laugh about this and I tell people, well, you know, if your teacher or your parents or your friends think that you're not capable of doing it, especially if they're monolingual, um, they most likely have no idea what they're talking about, so, you know, I mean, unless you have some, you know, serious learning disability, then I would say just do it, you know, find a way to to learn a language.
And I did I did fine in French class, and I and I liked it. And then when I was in high school, I said to my parents that I really wanted to to try to live in a French-speaking country so I could become fluent in the language. And my parents found, um, a friend of theirs, a Russian friend who lived in France, and she found me a family to stay with, and so I stayed with that family in France and I went to school, and after two months I I was fluent in French, um, and I had no accent, I had no American accent when I spoke in French. And that's when I realized that, okay, I I I learned languages well, and I didn't understand what I was doing, but I knew that there was something about the way I was listening, the way I was studying that made me more successful than other people around me. So that was that was my start.
That's very cool and uh you know, we often have people who were told off in in when they were young. No, you can't do that and rejected basically and and it can be quite devastating for for many kids, I imagine, being told what you cannot do, um, especially by people who have no clue. There's lots of famous rejections that I won't go into, but uh I'm sure we we've all uh faced that before. So that's super cool.
So, friend you went to you had French in school and then you went there to sort of uh perfect it. Uh and what did you what did you do as you growing up in in your late teens and and and later? Did you have regular projects or did they sort of come to you uh out of coincidence or did you travel a lot? How did you keep that interest going, that spark?
Uh, so when I was in France, um, in the school, uh, the kids had to take two foreign languages. English was I think mandatory, and then they could choose between Spanish and German. And, uh, I didn't know any German, and so I decided to go into the Spanish class because I thought, well, you know, I live in California, I've seen signs in Spanish, I've heard music in Spanish since I was a child. I could at least understand something, so I I started taking Spanish, and I really enjoyed it. And at the time, the that school in France had an exchange with a school from La Coruña in Spain. And when the kids from Spain came, they were just so fun and so vibrant and, um, I was allowed to go on their field trips, so I didn't have to go to class. I could hang out with them and go, you know, to explore around. And I noticed how all the kids would share their food, and I just found them to be just such a jovial bunch of people, and I was like, wow, I really like this. I, you know, I wanna learn this language, I like these people.
And when I returned to the US, I took a a Spanish class over the summer at my junior college, and then in my last year of high school, I took an intensive Spanish class. And, um, I did really well, and I really enjoyed the class, I enjoyed the teacher, and I enjoyed the poetry that we were learning and the plays, and everything. And then when I went to college, um, I went straight into a literature class. You know, I skipped past, you know, the the next level of grammar because I I I basically either knew a little bit of the the more advanced grammar, or I just taught it to myself. It was just gonna be a waste of time for me to sit in a classroom with, you know, with students who were slower learners. And, um, I went straight into a literature class, and, interestingly enough, the instructor, who was a graduate student, he was getting his PhD in Spanish literature, was from Korea. And he was very strict. And a lot of the students didn't like his manner. You know, he had grown up in Korea. Um, in Korea, the teachers are very strict, not like in the US. And, uh, I was fine. I don't I don't mind strict teachers, I don't have any trouble with them. And, I did really well in his class. And he's the one that instilled in me a love for poetry. I actually wasn't really fond of poetry before. I mean, I liked it in my Spanish class in high school, but, uh, I had to read a lot of poetry in Spanish in his class.
And, since then, you know, people have asked me, oh, so, how did you learn this in Spanish, or how do you know this poetry in Spanish? And I said, oh, it's from my Spanish instructor in college. And they said, oh, so where was your Spanish instructor from? And I said, Korea. And they just stop, they're like, what, Korea? I'm like, yes, South Korea. Did not this man did not grow up in a Spanish-speaking country, nor did, you know, I mean, I grew up in California, which is in many ways a, I mean, many parts of the country the state are Spanish-speaking, but I didn't grow up in a Spanish-speaking atmosphere in California. And, this kind of goes to show, like what you were just talking about before, about how so many people have been rejected, right? They're told you're not gonna learn a language. And our stereotype of a Spanish professor is not somebody from Korea. It's somebody from Latin America or Spain.
And I I was listening the other day to a TED Talk by Angela Duckworth, and I I I she wrote a book called *Grit*. It came out in the last couple years. I had heard before podcasts from her, I think on Freakonomics, about what makes people successful. And she did interviews with people from um, teachers working in difficult areas, low-income areas, at-risk areas, from uh salespeople to students, and people in different uh walks of life to find out what makes them successful. Or what makes them finish what their project is. And she realized it had nothing to do with socioeconomic background, education level, culture, religion, race. Uh, none of that. It was all about grit. Like, how much, uh, motivation people had to keep going, even if they kept being told like you're not gonna be able to make it, or if they weren't successful. Like, people who just had the guts to keep going. And I think that that implies the same, you know, with with language learning. Um,
Sorry, there's just a little bit of interference on your microphone. I don't know uh if if there's anything uh pressing against something or or any of those.
Oh, I I think I moved it. Is it better now?
Uh or is it the same? There's nothing now. It's just I think it's when you speak that it's like you're you're moving it or something. It just uh was just a little noisy there, but it it's gone now so, all good.
Okay, good. I I will keep my hand steady. I won't I won't move my hand.
Are you speaking in an Italian fashion there?
Yeah, it might be. It might be. I think my hands might have been moving. I haven't been paying attention, but I will keep them on lock and hold.
That's that's all right. And yeah, grit and motivation obviously is something that I've been talking a lot about. I think almost every episode we we have that as a as a topic, so I definitely agree with you that that is maybe the most important way to language learning success. I mean, certainly the biggest part of their the recipe for me, because people endlessly talk about should I use this method, that method, this app, or this way. And at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you do, as long as you do something and and consistently and and for an extended period of time. So, so that's definitely uh something that I've also seen.
When did um you you have a a website, CreateYourWellBook where you you put you put your musings and uh your books as well. Uh when did you start thinking about the connection between music and and language learning as in as was the case with with your book, *Languages as Music*?
So, after learning Spanish in college, I took Italian, and I basically in one semester taught myself all the grammar. You know, I took a basic Italian class, and then I just taught myself the rest of the book because at that point, I already knew, you know, French and Spanish, so it was it was pretty easy. And then I was already in an Italian literature class. And then after college, I taught myself Portuguese. I took one class, but most of it I taught I learned on my own. And with each of the languages, I developed a near native accent. Or with in the case of my Portuguese, I have a mixed accent between Portuguese, uh European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese, but, um, it's still it's not an American accent when I when I speak or a Russian accent. Um, and then when I lived in Bosnia, um, even though I didn't like the language, I was I I got up to an intermediate level. And, people would always ask me like, what is it that you're doing? Because I studied for many more years than you did, and I'm not I don't have the results that you do, I have a terrible accent, I forget things. And I was like, I have no idea. This is just my thing. I'm just good at languages.
And, and then I read a book called *Musicophilia* by Dr. Oliver Sacks. Unfortunately, he died two years ago. And he's a neurologist from the United Kingdom who mostly practiced in the United States. And he was also um, a pianist, and then loved classical music. And he found with his patients that even if they had had a stroke and they lost the ability to speak, many of them were still musical. They could, if they played an instrument, they would play the instrument, or they could dance, some of them could sing but they couldn't speak. And he did a lot of research into the way music activates the brain. And when I read the book, actually, I think I listened to it first as an audiobook. Um, when I read it or listened to it, I realized that was it. The way I listen to language is like the way I listen to music. I'm picking up on the on the melody, the rhythm. And I'm not consciously doing it. It's it's just the way that my my brain is wired. Um, because I'm I'm I love music. You know, I play the piano, I used to play the piano, I played the clarinet, I like to sing. I mean, I've never, um, been an accomplished musician, but I'm very motivated by music.
And so not only did I listen to music languages as music, but I also listened to music in foreign languages. So, when I was learning Spanish, I listened to music in Spanish. I grew up hearing music in Spanish, you know, on the radio here in California. When I was learning Italian, you know, I gravitated towards Italian music, and with Brazilian music, I also gravitated towards Brazilian music. So, I realized that actually listening to songs in foreign languages was also key to my ability to recall words, remember grammatical patterns, remember pronunciation. And what Dr. Oliver Sacks showed in his book was that music activates more parts of the brain than language does. So if you hear a song in a foreign language, literally more parts of your brain are activated. Like if you were put into an MRI machine, and you were to listen to the text of a song, the lyrics, just read to you, certain parts of your brain would light up. But if you heard that sung, more parts of your brain would light up. And the more parts of your brain that are activated can help with long-term memory because, um, you know, your your brain is just more active when it when it's listening to a song.
And so I put all that together, and I thought, this must be it. I mean, this is part of it, obviously. Um, you still have to learn the grammar. Either you either you sit in a classroom, you get yourself a tutor, or you get yourself a book, or you learn from an app, whatever. The grammar you still have to learn. You can't just like sit around all day listening to music and suddenly be able to speak. Um, and so some people misconstrue what I have said, and they say, well, Susanna thinks that you can just watch soap operas all day and listen to music, and then you're fluent. I'm like, no. I never said that. It's very clearly written in my book that that's not true.
Uh, but when at first, this was about 10 years ago, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna write a little brochure about like 10 tips about how to learn languages using music. And the more I started writing, I realized this isn't a brochure. This isn't like a flyer you'd put up in a classroom, this is a book, because there are many things. And then I talked to other people who were also successful language learners, who also learned a lot outside of the classroom, and they said, they corroborated what I had been thinking about watching movies with the original, um, audio, watching movies with with subtitles in the original language, and also in your language, watching uh TV, listening to radio. And that's when it became a book. And, um, the topic, I mean, so the title, *Languages as Music*, is that language is a type of music. And if you think about it that way, it makes it much more enjoyable. And it also gives you more opportunities to put the language into your life, because the way languages are usually taught in classrooms is using the same methodologies that have been around for the last 200 years, before people could have stereos or computers in the classroom. You know, when I was in school, I mean, we're lucky if we learned like one song in the entire year.
Of course.
Hey guys, I just wanted to take a quick break from today's episode. Just thank Glossika, the show's sponsor, for being involved and for supporting and backing a project that I've been working on for so many years at the Actual Fluency Podcast. If in case you didn't know, it's been going on for over four years, and there's been over 125 episodes published.
Um, Glossika is a big company that provides a lot of language courses. I think they have over 50 languages now, and each of the courses is highly highly uh contextualized, so you get a lot of sentences in context that you can then, um, you tweak with a lot of tools, you can train it, you can practice, you can go over it. So it's kind of a nice to do. I really like their hands-off approach as well. They have a a mode where you just press a button, and you don't have to click anything, you don't have to do anything, it just sort of plays, that puts the reps together, a bit like a training program. So if you want to give Glossika a try and be sure to tell them Kris sent you, go to TryGlossika.com. And Glossika is spelled G. L. O. S. S. I. K. A. And uh give it a try.
Yeah.
I I find it really interesting the and I honestly tell you a little bit, I I haven't read your book, um, because I I was never into music when I grew up, I'm still not really that interested in music. Um, and the whole listening part of language learning was something that I completely ignored for years and years because I thought, wrongly so, that listening is something that you I mean, you can't really do listening, I I I thought and and the whole pronunciation trying learning how to actually say or speak the words and sentences like a native speaker, I always had this just good enough mindset, you know? So I really under-prioritized anything that had to do with listening and and uh pronunciation. So, for me, this is also really a a big revelation coming much later. I don't know why, but for me, I just had totally the opposite experience where, yes, we did some songs in in school and, you know, in every textbook it says at the beginning, chapter one is always about pronunciation, how's the language actually spoken? But I would just happily skip that.
So, I'm really really excited to to talk to you about about this uh more in depth also. So, would you give some maybe some practical a few practical pointers on on how to do that? Is there anything I need to be doing actively? Uh should I write something down? Uh what what what would you do advise me who's not really a a big uh listener of music or or watching I don't watch a lot of native stuff, even though I know I should. Um, is there anything I can do to improve my my learning that way?
Well, I think there are things that you did naturally that you just weren't aware of. For example, in Scandinavia, all of your programming that's originally in English, whether it's from the US or some other country, you listen to it in the original language with subtitles, correct? Yeah. So, you weren't that wasn't an active choice you made, it was just there. You, you know, you've been, I know you said you don't watch much television, but whatever television you did watch that was originally from the US or the UK, you always heard in the original American or, you know, British English. And that's a huge difference, you know, with your colleagues on other parts of the continent, because in Germany, they listen to everything dubbed in German, in France, and Italy, and Spain, everything is dubbed in their languages. And then people have trouble with pronunciation, because they never hear they didn't grow up listening to the original. And then when they're whatever 12 or 11, and they're in a classroom, let's say in French, and they have to say, hello, they say, hello, because they don't hear the H at the beginning of the word, because every time somebody in an American or British movie said hello, they heard salut or bonjour. So, that's the first thing, is listening to the original audio. And it's something that you don't even have to do really actively. I mean, you just let's say you want to watch a movie, you listen to the in the original, and you, um, you know, you read the subtitles. Obviously, if you're an advanced learner, maybe you don't need the subtitles in your language, you can listen to the you can read the subtitles in the original language. So, that's the first thing. There's always going for the original.
And with music, I think one of the things that keeps people from learning language or paying attention to music in other languages is they just haven't found music that they liked. And that's the I mean,
Don't tell me that's the...
What's that?
That might be uh the case for me certainly.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, when I was in middle school, the only song we heard in French was Je le Taxi by Vanessa Paradis, and I still hate it. I mean, it's so rare that I ever hear it, but when I hear it, I'm like, oh, turn that off, it's, you know, it's terrible. So, you know, people often ask me, oh, so what music should I listen to if I want to learn Russian? I'm like, well, I have no idea what kind of music you like. I happen to really like old ballads like, you know, like from the 40s. I love the music of Frank Sinatra, and Bobby Darin, and Duke Ellington, like all that old stuff in English. One of the reasons is that I really like that kind of music, besides the fact that the music is fantastic, is that the pronunciation is good. At that time, back in the 40s and 50s, people didn't have techno music in the background. They didn't manipulate the sounds. And so it's just the instruments and it's the vocalist. And the vocalist always takes precedence. So you can clearly hear what people are singing. Now, if you're trying to learn English by listening to Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath or some sort of heavy metal, forget it. It's just not gonna happen because all you you mostly are hearing the instruments, you hear someone singing, but it's hard to make out what they're saying. Yeah. So, you have to go for vocalist first, instrumental second. That's that's the most important thing.
And you have to find something that you like. And at the beginning, just listen, just enjoy it, like you would, you know, a song in your own language. And then, if you already have a background in language or as you're listening to the song, write down the words that you think you recognize, and then go and find the lyrics, either in the CD box or in the internet and verify what you heard is actually what was being said. And sometimes people say, well, I sometimes don't even understand the lyrics in my own language, which is true. I mean, I sometimes hear something in English, and I think the singer is saying one thing and they're actually saying something else, and that's why it's important to verify it. Um, and then if you have any sort of musical skill, I would try singing it yourself, like doing karaoke. And if you don't want other people to hear you, then just record yourself on a recorder, and then compare how you sound to the original.
Um, also, if you can watch a video of the singer singing, like if it's very clear, not with a lot of background stuff. If you can clearly look at the mouth, the way the the singer is is moving their mouth, that's also very important, because with certain sounds that are foreign to you, you can't pronounce them unless you're moving your mouth correctly. Yep. Yeah, it's a muscle thing. And if you think about how, um, opera singers or other singers practice, they practice in front of the mirror to make sure that they're moving their mouth in the correct way. And so, for example, like the French sound "eu". It's not the "you" in English, it's "eu". And to make that, you have to pout, you know, maybe I should send you a photo so you could put it on the for this podcast because obviously we're doing audio, you can't tell. But you have to put your lips out like like a little child who's being annoying. That's how you make that sound in French. And I I remember when I lived in France, and later on when I returned to France, I was thinking, why do the French often have this very childish look on their face, like they're pouting? And then I made the connection. I thought, well, the only way to make the sound "eu" is by moving your lips out. And so, by by, you know, because of that, you know, you make sometimes it makes you look like a little annoying child. Uh, so those are things to point out to. So that's not just about listening. That's also about paying attention to the way the person, you know, moves their mouth.
It's a whole package.
Yes, yes.
And listening is part of that too. Or sorry, pronunciation is part of that too, I think, because well, at least I had when I was doing some Russian in the early stages, I the teacher would tell me sounds, and she would ask me, do you hear the difference between sound A and sound B? She'd say the sounds. I said, no, they sound exactly the same to me. And she said, that's because you don't know how to make them. So I couldn't hear the difference because I didn't know how to make the difference. And and so for me they're always gonna be interlinked between listening and actually producing. It's it's very hard to hear a sound if you're unfamiliar with it in in the first place.
Yes. Yes. And that's why it's important to have a lot of listening. And that's what doesn't happen in the classroom because, you know, if your class is 50 minutes long, your teacher isn't gonna spend 15 minutes of you just listening to audio or either music or spoken, um, people speaking. So that's what you have to do on your on your own. And sometimes it can be even passive. You know, a lot of the the way I learned European Portuguese is because I was listening to Portuguese radio. So there's a Portuguese immigrant community where I live, and they have a radio station, not for the whole day, for part of the day. And I used to listen to their radio as I was on my way to work. And at the beginning, I don't know how much I understood, but I was listening to it just to hear the language. And, I mean, I would listen to stuff that I was completely uninterested in. I'm not Catholic. I even listened to their daily mass, you know, in in Portuguese, you know, ho our holy father, blah, blah, blah. Like, I believe me. I've I've heard more Catholic masses in Portuguese than some Brazilian Catholics that I know. And it doesn't mean that, you know, I converted to another religion, it was just for me to hear the language. And then when I opened my mouth to speak Portuguese, um, what came out was a fairly heavy Portuguese accent. And people asked me like, how did you get that accent? Because you've never lived in Portugal. And I said, it's because I was listening to the radio for so long. And it was passive, because I was busy driving. You know, when you're driving, you're not paying attention to vowels and consonants. So it's important because your teacher was right, you can't recognize a sound that you've never heard, and you can't produce a sound you've never heard. And so, the problem is is in the classroom, on the on day one, you're you're already making your you're in a situation where you have to pronounce words you've never heard. And so you're most likely gonna have an accent. So you have to go a step back and realize, okay, I have to hear this first. My brain needs to get used to these new sounds.
Yeah. And most people will have accents because they, like me, just kind of skip past that first stage. And just went straight into uh producing. But I think it's a very hard it's a hard place of language learning or a hard point in your language learning because at least I find if I watch stuff that I don't understand at all, then it's very boring, it's very hard to keep focus. Let's say watching a movie even with the subtitles, it gets kind of uh boring after a while. And and sometimes it's hard to find the subtitles in the first place, because they might not they might not be English subtitles for the uh I don't know, Italian uh sitcom that, you know, it'll probably be possible to find, but it can be difficult. And sometimes it's the subtitles of another languages' subtitles, and not the what's actually going on in the scene. Um, but so there's a Chris, I think I lost you. No, yeah. Um, yes, I just said that that there might be it might be hard to find subtitles sometimes. So if I don't have the subtitles and I don't understand anything of what they're saying, then obviously I'm on a very early stage of language learning. Uh so how do I I don't know if you have any tips or tricks for me uh in that scenario where I'm not good enough in the language to actually understand much of what's going on, but I do want to get more input without being bored or, you know, just doing grammar exercises or, you know, flashcards. Like what would you do advise me who's not really a a big uh listener of music or or watching I don't watch a lot of native stuff, even though I know I should. Um, is there anything I can do to improve my my learning that way?
So, a really good point there about subtitles. I had that issue. I was watching this this Turkish soap opera that was actually on Spanish TV in the US, but it was dubbed in Spanish, and I actually wanted to hear the original Turkish, and I couldn't find subtitles in English. And the only place I could find sub the only language that I could find subtitles in was Russian. And and I read very rarely in Russian. I mean, really rarely in Russian. And the same thing happened last year, I was watching a great Greek um, TV show called *The Island*. And also couldn't find any subtitles in English. I found them in Russian, and I had to pay somebody to in put the subtitles on the video, because I didn't know how to do it. So it was a big production. And the thing is is that because I read slowly in Russian, I sometimes had to rewind and go back because I couldn't understand any of the Greek or the Turkish, so I had to read the Russian, but I couldn't read it fast enough. And so, like, instead of one hour spending watching an episode, it might take me like an hour and 15 minutes. So, I completely understand that. You can't always find stuff in English, or it's not good, it might be done by amateurs, the the subtitles I mean, and so it might not be good for language learning because subtitles may not always be accurate.
So, something that I would recommend here are actually news broadcasts, because the news broadcasts are short. You know, they're not gonna spend more than three or four minutes talking about something. And if you've been paying attention to the news in your own language, you most likely already know. Like, for example, you know, a big event that has happened in the last week. You know, there's um there's gonna be flooding in Hawaii, John McCain, you know, famous senator in the United States, just died yesterday from uh brain cancer. Um, I'm bringing up things in the US because it's the easiest thing for me to think of right now. You know, the big Manafort trial and the corruption with the Trump administration, all these things. So, let's say you've already watched that news in English, and now you're watching the news, let's say in German, you're watching Deutsche Welle, and they're covering these these events. It's not gonna be as boring for you as a new language learner, because you already understand the context. Right. And you might be able to find the subtitles, um, maybe not. But you're going to be able to pick out words that you're gonna figure out. Like, for example, if they're if they're talking about flooding in Hawaii, they're gonna use the word in German for flood, which I don't know what that is, because I don't speak German, but they're probably gonna say it like 10 times. And they're gonna show you pictures of a flood. And probably after the fifth time you hear the word, you're gonna realize, okay, that that means flood. Or they're they're the word is gonna be on the screen, flood in Hawaii. And then you're gonna hear the word like 10 times. And that can help because you have very strong visuals, you already have an understanding of the topic, and it's short. Whereas if you watch an entire one-hour episode, and you don't know what's going on, of course you're gonna be bored. So that's a good thing.
Um, children's shows are good, too, like Sesame Street in different languages. Uh, obviously not every language has Sesame Street, so you have to find their children's show. There the language is very simple. They use a lot of visuals, they use music. They probably put the word on the screen like 10 times, you know, for kids to learn how to read it. You know, some people don't as adults, they think, well, I'm not gonna watch a children's show, that's beneath me. But if you're a language learner, you're almost like a child. So, go ahead. Yeah. You know, do things that children do. You know, have fun.
Um, flashcards are good, you mentioned that. Um, I know some people use flashcards that they make on on on the web, and they're different timings that they use. I've I've never done that. I've done flashcards on paper. One of the good things about doing it on paper is as you write out the word, you're also enforcing it in your mind. Yeah. Uh, so that that that's an important thing.
Um, music videos are good. Um, because with music videos, you can oftentimes find music videos with the lyrics actually on the screen in the original language. Um, maybe also in your language. And sometimes karaoke lyrics are really good, because the way the karaoke lyrics work is that each word that is you're supposed to sing is highlighted, or there's a dot below it, or, you know, whatever, every karaoke thing might be a bit different. And so then you're hearing the song, and you're seeing the word that is supposed to be sung at that very at that very moment. Yeah. And so you don't have a guess about, okay, what is it that what's the word? And. You you hear it and you see it at the same time.
And.
Yeah, I think that's good. I I definitely wanna wanna get into listening more and and doing more sort of um, just input in general. I think something when I started, I was very focused on output. How can I read more chapters? How can I do more flashcards? Uh, do more Duolingo, whatever the app of choice is. I'm always doing things instead of actually consuming things. So, I I I changed that recently. I got a subscription to the uh National Russian Newspaper here. And I'm reading that uh, you know, uh, not perfectly. Uh, it's not an easy language to read, I find. Um, and the words are ridiculously long, but that's okay. I'll I'll get there.
And the same with the the the sort of um, I'm also reading Harry Potter, which is something I I wanted to bring in here as well, because you said if you're familiarity with the the topic, then it'll be easier. And for me, I've read the Harry Potter books in English and in Danish. I've seen all the movies. You know, I'm quite a big fan of the series. So reading it in Russian is actually also fun, even if I don't if I had never read the story before, I would be very lost. But because I know what's going on from before, I can still read it and still get some practice out of it. And, you know, if I if I was a really good language learner, I would probably stop and write up some words that were repeatedly said that I don't understand, or, you know, do some um, gold listing or whatever people do with the with pen and paper. But for now, I'm just reading it as a first time and just want to read it through naturally. And then I'll try and read it again and and stop if there's anything that doesn't make any sense, and I'll try and look it up sentence by sentence.
You know, I mean I just started reading a book yesterday two days ago in Italian, and there are words I didn't understand. Once I stopped, I looked it up on my phone, and then I thought, you know what? If it's not like, if I absolutely can't understand the entire paragraph because of one word, then it's just it's not worth it looking up the word because it's just an interruption. So I get it. And I think it's also important to kind of realize what your goal is. If your goal is to understand every single word in a passage, then yes, you're gonna have to use a dictionary. But if you already have a good enough grasp of the language, and you can get by with missing a few words here and there or more, then, you know, just enjoy it. Because I think when we we put these constraints on ourselves, like, well, I should know every word, or I should be this kind of learner. Then we just create anxiety, and anxiety doesn't lead to good language learning, so you just want to, you know, enjoy it.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do with this first read anyway. We'll see if I do a second read, but but I definitely just want to that's the same with the paper, you know. I I just read it, and I'm trying to understand as much as I can. And I'm sure the brain is making unconscious connections, and it's sort of figure I think I lost you again. There you are. Uh, I was just saying if I read the paper or the book uh naturally, at a natural pace, and also out loud. I try to do that a lot if I don't have any people staying over, of course. I think that helps, and I think the brain when you're not working on it is creating some connections. It's it's actually figuring out sometimes, I think, what words and sentences mean, even if you have no idea that the brain is doing it. Because if you hear the same, I mean, the brain is great at guessing, right? So, the more you you see the same word, you contextualize what's around it, and then eventually the brain makes a guess. And, you know, often it's right, and in my youth, I occurred a few times where it wasn't right. I I thought it would meant one thing. So I went my most of my teens with one definition. And then suddenly I figured out, oh my God, that does actually mean completely opposite. But uh luckily that's that's rare.
You know, you you brought up a point about how do you instill in people the importance of input, because so much it is based on output, right? Uh especially in a classroom environment. And the first thing you do is you start you learn how to say hello, and my name is, and so on, and so forth. And I think it's important to think about the way we learn language when we're babies. You know, we hear for an entire year before we start speaking. That also has to do with just the way the brain is developing when we're infants. But that's it's it's natural. You know, your brain has to listen to things and and and take things in before you can create them, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just like if you're a doctor, you're not gonna do surgery before you've learned all the parts of the body and, you know, what happens when you touch here, what happens what happens when you touch there. And that's something that a teacher just can't do in a classroom, and that's something you have to do on your own.
Um, and I think that one of the ways to maybe encourage people about in terms of input is for people to understand how this affects their accent. And how difficult it is when you're older and you've already been speaking a language for five or 10 years or whatever, to then change your accent. You know, people pay lots of money for accent retraining. Like, I live in Silicon Valley, and there are people who come from China, and India, and other parts of the world. And, you know, the people from India who learned English as a child, but they learned it with an Indian accent. When they come here, and people have trouble understanding them in in a meeting, and they have to take uh accent retraining lessons. It's very expensive. It's very time-consuming. And they don't want to And people say, I don't want to spend all this time looking at myself in a mirror when I speak, because I already know how to speak. Well, if if you don't want to spend time when you're 50 years old staring at yourself in a mirror and paying somebody, I don't know, $100 an hour, I don't know how much it costs, to change your accent, then do it when you're young. Or or do it not even if you're young. I mean, you could be 50 years old and learning a language. Um, for the at the beginning, do it at the beginning, because it's gonna save you so much time and effort later on. And you want people to understand you, right? And if people have to strain to understand you because they can't understand your pronunciation, fewer people are gonna listen to you, or they're only only gonna listen to you for short periods of time because they're gonna lose their patience. So, Yeah. So, it's it's an investment in, um, just not just your own ability to pronounce the language, but for people to actually want to talk to you.
Yeah, and I think that like we talked about, it's listening and production. You know, it helps both at the same time, and if people don't understand what you're saying, you likely won't understand what they're saying as well, because you just haven't trained the the understanding part of it. So. So I think that's important. And like I said, I I'll happily admit that that's my biggest mistake when I started doing this. I I did a lot of, you know, work on it, but I didn't pay much attention to pronunciation or input. And so, as a consequence, I I have to do catch up. And I have to do a lot of of uh listening now and and and try to do some some work on on accents.
Uh, another thing about accents is if you're like me, you're exposed to many different cultures. I grew up in Denmark, and most of the culture that was was American. And being the uh stubborn person I am, I I always drifted towards the uh UK accent or the UK uh programs and movies. I always liked the the idea of the British English, you know, London, and the Queen's English. Uh but lately I've just kind of, I don't know, kind of collapsed a bit. Maybe because I got to England and I realized, well, speaking English, English here isn't really that special. I don't know if that's the case. Um, but but now I get told by everyone that I have a bit of an accent, and they're like, where are you from? And I'm like, you know what? My English is as good as it gets, but my accent is just all over the place. Like, some words I'll say with a very distinct English accent, some words I'll say with a very American accent. And in effect, my total package is like somewhere in the middle. It's some some lazy, uh, I don't know, bastardized version of English. So maybe I should get some uh some accent training lessons just to solidify where to put myself. I don't know.
No, your your I mean, your English is flawless. I think, you know, why spend the money just to teach yourself one accent or the other. You could spend that time learning another language. Right. You know, I I say this from personal experience, actually, so I'm not just giving you advice from from nowhere.
I I thought the same with my Portuguese. Mostly because I just got tired of answering the question, where did you learn Portuguese? Why do you have this weird accent? You know, your grandparents from Portugal, blah, blah, blah. And, the reason I wanted to change my accent is because at one time I wanted to move to Brazil, and I wanted to have my own TV show where I was teaching Brazilians English through music, and I thought, well, if I want to be on Brazilian TV, um, it would be just much easier if I could just speak with a purely Brazilian accent, so I won't confuse people. And I understand because sometimes you can tell when people are looking at you and they're listening to you, and they're actually not listening to the content of what you're saying, they're trying to figure out your accent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because, believe me, I've been there myself, on both sides, where I'm like, gosh, where's that person's accent from? And I realize I'm not paying attention to what they're saying.
And, um, I gave up because I, you know, I was trying to teach myself the different closed vowels, and the the pronunciation is different between European and Brazilian English or Portuguese. And then I realized, actually, I really just don't care because I'm not gonna live in Brazil. I have better things to do than look at myself in the mirror and, you know, practice these words. And, um, part of having a mixed accent is maybe just part of my identity. You know, people it just tell when I open my mouth, it tells a story of how I learn the language, you know, from from two different cultures. And as long as people can understand me, as long as my pronunciation is good, you know, it's not that I am pronouncing the things with the wrong um, accent, then that's fine. I'll just stay with the stay where I am.
Yeah, that's probably what I will do, too. But but I thought it was a funny little uh um as a as an aside, just because somebody literally told me yesterday, like, uh, you have a bit of an accent, where are you from? And I was like, uh, okay. Whatever, you know. I'll I'll tell you. Not that it matter.
Sometimes, actually, this might uh this might be an interesting point as well. Sometimes I think it can be advantageous to have a slight accent as well, because if you're if you're somehow flawless in an accent, but your language skills are maybe not as good as your accent would indicate, sometimes people speak like a 200 miles per hour, they they like disregard anything completely. But if you have a little bit of a twang, uh you might sometimes get some help or some uh let's say some uh extra attention that can make it slightly easier in the beginning. So, so I don't know, there's a bit of a uh a different side to the story there as well.
I agree. I agree. Um, you know, and I was in Portugal in December and January. Um, I the first day I got off the plane, I went to eat, and um, the woman at the restaurant thought that I was Brazilian, and she spoke really quickly, and I asked her what vegetables were coming with my meal. And she said, cenoura. And I had no idea what cenoura was, and I was jet-lagged. And um, I was like, well, what is that? And she she said, I thought you were Brazilian. Like, you would know this word. So she goes and shows me, it's a carrot. And she's like, I can't believe you don't know the word what the word carrot is. I thought you're from Brazil. And I said, no, I'm not from Brazil. I I happen to speak Portuguese. I'm jet-lagged. Thank you, I will eat the carrot, you know, with my fish. And at at that point, the fact that I fooled her with my accent was really not to my advantage, because I looked like an idiot. Right. So I I get it. You know, there there are two sides to this story.
Yeah. You sometimes you also want to stand out a bit. Again, that's probably speaking to uh to vanity, but if if you're a foreigner in a country, and you somehow can pass off as a native speaker, then maybe that's not as interesting as uh if you had a bit of an accent, maybe that would make you slightly more exotic or interesting. So, there's a human psychology uh thing there as well, I think. Not saying that that's why I'm doing it, but I I think I've read just yesterday, I read something about Arnold Schwarzenegger that apparently he can speak English without an accent. Or, I mean, Can he?
I don't really believe.
Yeah, I don't really believe that he can speak perfectly, or well enough to to fool people, but apparently that was uh he said that in in an interview that it's such a big part of his identity to have this German accent, or Austrian accent, that that he he has to use it for otherwise people would just get confused, or his fans would just be annoyed. And and I I was thinking about it that, yeah, we're not all a big Hollywood movie star, of course, but it's identity, isn't it? Language is identity. And if I were to speak with a perfect British English accent, which I probably could, then maybe a little bit of my identity would be lost, or it would be feel I would feel as if I was putting on a show, which is a a hard thing to do, and certainly wouldn't feel um proper. I don't know.
I I agree with you. Plus when they see your name, they would see Christopher Broholm. That doesn't sound like a very British name, so yes, you would be putting on a show.
They would find out eventually.
That's right. That's right.
Anyway, uh Susanna, I also wanted to talk to you about uh one of your bigger projects, uh this uh this movie you did uh called *Saved by Language*, which is about uh language preservation. Do you want to just quickly summarize the the project and how you got into it?
Sure. So when I lived in Sarajevo, I I met people there who were Holocaust survivors, who were Sephardic Jews, so that means they're Jews whose ancestors migrated from the Iberian Peninsula, from Spain, um, maybe also Portugal to to the former Ottoman Empire when the Spanish Inquisition, uh, made anyone who wasn't Catholic, um, leave the leave the Iberian Peninsula, or be forcibly converted to Catholicism, or be killed. And I met these people who spoke this old language called Ladino, it's also called Judeo-Spanish. So it's the Spanish that was spoken in Spain in the 15th century. And I was just mesmerized by the language, the songs. And I of course spoke to them in modern Spanish. And it was like taking a time machine back to the 15th century. Like I've never been to the 15th century, at least, you know, maybe in a former life, I don't remember, but, you know, I I heard words that I I I don't hear now in modern Spanish, I heard sounds that don't exist anymore in modern Spanish.
And I met a man there, Moric Albahari, who told me that during World War II, he used Ladino twice to be able to communicate with people who helped him escape from going to the Holocaust, to going to the concentration camps, and being killed. And I was fascinated by his story, and it took me many years to come back and film a documentary about him, and about how he used the language, and also about how the language used to exist in Bosnia before World War II.
And I found out that there's a whole movement around the world to save endangered languages. You know, Ladino is an endangered language. Um another Jewish language that's also endangered is Yiddish. But there are, you know, thousands I can't remember how many, what the what the number is, but there are thousands of languages around the world which are almost at the point of extinction. That's especially in Latin America and in Africa, because what's happening is that colonial languages or more or majority languages are just wiping out minority languages. Um but in other places like Australia there are much more people who have to speak language, cares, number of people. Which is documented. So people are abandoning these these minority languages, or they're just not teaching it to kids. And these languages aren't being taught to kids. Uh But there are Oh, on the internet you can find revival, you know.
And so by making it I think with Ladino and Yiddish, they're easier languages to preserve because they're related to big languages. Like, if you speak Spanish, you can understand Ladino. If you speak German, you can learn Yiddish. Now, for other languages, indigenous languages where there are like 10 people left, some of those indigenous languages may not be similar to the indigenous languages of tribes or villages around them. And so in those cases, it's not about revival and it's not about survival, it's about preservation or conservation of what's there. So, recording people speaking the language, um recording songs in the language, recording conversations, taking videos of people who, you know, are speaking the language. And that's really just for archival purposes. And it's sad. But that that's unfortunate.
Yeah, um, I I always feel a little bit uh it's a difficult situation, I feel like, because the language that you end up reviving or or that, let's say, I decide to learn an endangered language, that language that I learn will obviously be a version quite different than the original. I mean, obviously. Um, so sometimes I wonder if those languages that are very close to extinct, the priority should be more on, you know, documenting rather than reviving. But what what are you saying? Or obviously, you're much more in this uh this kind of movement. I don't have much experience with it.
I see that. That that's but that's a very niche uh situation, though, like uh let's take the some of the uh maybe some of the American language, the uh the indigenous languages there, uh it would be very hard for someone. And actually I think it was the same with Yiddish, uh now that I mention now that I come to think of it. I was talking to a guy called Mosha about uh Yiddish. He was telling about the language, how the community is. I asked him a question like, what would the community think of someone like me learning Yiddish and then coming to talk to them? And he said, you would probably not be spoken much to. You know. Um, so that's obviously an issue if you're trying to uh trying to learn the language naturally or trying to actually use it in a in a proxy kind of sense. Uh so I'm always I'm always curious in terms of the applications because obviously I I I do believe that we should document and and do research and and all these things with with languages because I, as I said earlier, I think they are cultures. I think they contain the soul of a of a people, really. But at the same time, I I always struggle with the idea of me learning, I don't know, some like Ladino, for instance. I I don't know anyone, I I've never been to places where it's spoken, so that's always been the the struggle for me.
Um I don't know if you you have any anything on on on that. Like, what to encourage people, maybe, to to get involved, if there's any other benefits or maybe people are studying in uni about history, maybe, history majors or something. What what what would be the people who are ideal to uh to do some of these uh language projects?
Yeah, you bring up a very good point because if you are learning a language of a religious community, for example, uh Ashkenazi Jews who speak Yiddish. If you're not Jewish, some of the more religious people might not be interested in speaking to you. But it could be that the maybe some of the young people who are also in that community who are trying to revive the language, they might be more interested in speaking to you. So, it's about finding the right people, but I understand what you're saying because, um, I've seen different reports of young generations in in Latin different Latin American countries who are trying to revive their languages by creating modern music in those languages, and the elders don't like it, because the elders don't want modern music. They want the traditional stuff that they've been, you know, that's been sung for like three or 400 years. So, even within a community, you're you could have splits along generational and cultural lines.
So, I think what's and that that's something that some linguists have to deal with, especially when the linguist who's learning a language and wants to document it is not from that culture. They have trouble getting acceptance, getting trust. Um, you know, like, for example, in some places in Australia, um, a lot of those indigenous communities have only seen bad things happen from white people. You know, the the British colonialists, and then the the separation policies, of putting children into boarding schools, you know, that was all mandated by the white government. Same thing in Canada. So, I could understand that it could be very hard to be accepted by those communities. And I think in that in those situations, you have to work with leaders in the community to gain trust, and to show that, you know, you what you're doing can actually bring value to the community, whether it's creating a dictionary, or making videos, or whatever. And it would be important, as you mentioned, to partner with people in in a university, either linguists or historians who are working on those communities, to find out what's the best way to collaborate and get cooperation.
Right. Because I assume someone learning an endangered language in their house and not really using it for anything doesn't really do much unless you're in a in a geographical proxy to that language.
Yes. Or if there's something that you can do by studying the language. Like, for example, you know, if you are a linguist, a trained linguist, and you know how to create a grammar, which I have no idea how to do. Perhaps as in that capacity, you could help out the community, even if you're not there. Or maybe they need someone to create a way to um, create a writing like a phonetic um writing system for their language, and that's something that somebody could do if they're working from home. Maybe in some places it's creating a video documentation system for the language, or classifying all the different audio things that they have. There are things that you could do, not just by learning language, but also in terms of keeping the language alive, even if you're not living in that community.
Right. So being a a part of a movement, or some kind of uh preservation society almost, uh to in in a remote location. That's definitely possible.
Yeah.
I guess that's ideal for people who study linguistics or even history, I guess, if they have history about that region, or or those people, you know, I think that could be an ideal uh pastime in a way to maybe aid a research project or create a research project entirely, which could then support the the efforts.
Mhm. Yeah.
That's pretty cool. Anyway, um, yeah, so I basically we've been uh a bit around. Uh is there any any things about learning languages or culture or travel that uh that you think we've missed or omitted from from our conversation?
Well, there's something that I've been doing research on for the past couple years, but I don't have any results to to share about, but I think I'd like to share about what I'm working on. I would like to know how people with disabilities learn languages. Whether the person is deaf, or the person is blind, or the person has um autism. Uh, the reason I'm interested in this is because I have a visual disability, and uh I don't see three dimensions, and my eyes don't work well together. I use one eye at a time. And the three-dimensional vision doesn't make a difference in terms of language learning, but the the trouble with reading does create a create a problem, because sometimes words move on the page when I read, or I see things in double.
And there are people who have this condition, I I have what's called strabismus, cross-eyes, and amblyopia, lazy eye. And the the umbrella category for this are binocular vision problems. So anyone who has trouble using both eyes together. And there are many people who have binocular vision problems who just have a lot of trouble reading, because words move on the page. They um, the the brain can't use both eyes together to track when they're reading. And so some kids, um, just have trouble reading in school, and they get misdiagnosed as having an attention deficit disorder, or something else. Um, it's not dyslexia, but there are certain similarities to dyslexia, where people who are dyslexic also sometimes see, you know, letters move on the page, or letters switch their direction.
And so something that I've been curious about is that if somebody has trouble reading in their own language, let's say it's English, and they want to learn a language with a different script, like Greek or Arabic. How do they do it? Especially Arabic, or Farsi, or any language where you're reading from right to left, rather than left to right, like you would in English. I've asked language instructors at the Defense Language Institute in California, which is where people in the military learn languages. I've I've written to different organizations that deal with the blind. I'm I want to learn Greek. I even wrote to the Greek embassy, the Greek Consulate in San Francisco, the Greek Archdiocese of the United States. I wrote to a university in Athens that teaches Greek to foreigners. Nobody had an answer to me. No one. And I was thinking, I can't be the only person who has a disability who wants to learn Greek. So, how do other people do it? And I asked someone I know, who's the mother of a dyslexic child, and she said, in her experience, dyslexic children just don't learn a foreign language. They learn sign language. And that sign language can count as a foreign language. You know, for example, when people are apply to university. And sign language makes sense because you don't have to write. You don't have to use your hands, and you're using gestures. And I thought, well, that's fantastic that they're learning sign language. But what if you are dyslexic and you want to learn another language? Or do you only use audio materials? What do you do? And I don't have any answer. So, if any of your listeners have any resources, I definitely welcome them to to contact me.
Yeah, that's that's super interesting. Uh I I can't even imagine how hard it must be for for people with with disabilities to learn the script, because obviously unless you're your disability is uh is connected to hearing, then you could always use audio resources. But that doesn't teach you how to actually write or read the language itself. So that's interesting. I I talked with uh Chanel uh in a few episodes ago, Chanel Hanko. She she has a a vision disability as well. Um, but we didn't really talk much about, you know, she has she has poor vision, so she can use certain aids like magnifying and and that kind of thing to to help. So it's a little bit different. Uh but but it's definitely an interesting episode. I thought, because it's hard enough for people to learn languages. I think anyway, I think it's a really big task that people set give themselves. Uh but then if you have something to overcome in order to do that, I think that's even even harder. And it's incredibly admirable, I find, when people sort of overcome their their own problems or physical disabilities to to succeed in language learning. Like, she knows a an inspiration to me, certainly, because she's just really excited about learning languages in spite of her her problems. So, I I'd love to hear your results for this if you do manage to find some people who have some maybe just experiences even to begin with, but but certainly if you find any kind of of research or or any tools or tricks to to actually make that happen.
I will let you know, and maybe we'll have a future podcast interview just on that topic.
Yeah, definitely. I'm very interested about that. So anyway, uh Susanna, it's been a real pleasure for years and years, I've followed you on the uh I sometimes call it the circuit, you know, the polyglot events uh and on YouTube. I remember watching you years and years ago in the with uh Richard and and Luka. And were you at the first conference in Budapest? Yeah, I thought so. And and then there was Benny's video as well, which is uh kind of a a funny a music video that I I remember you in. And actually. And actually it took me a long time to understand what you were saying in Russian in that video. It it kept bugging me. What why is he saying it in that way? I don't I don't get it. I don't get it. And then I start to learn about word order, and suddenly it it made sense. You know, you were saying something like, I don't see you, so I expected you to be after I. But you you you switched it around, I believe. Um, but anyway, that's that's besides the point. I just want to say it's been a real pleasure to to have a good talk to today. And I wish you all the best of luck with all your projects, and uh I hope to see you again somewhere, maybe in Montreal again, like two years ago. Or uh maybe in uh another conference around the world.
Like in Montreal. So good. I'm so glad that you remember that Skype video. I think I said "yet ebe ne vizhu".
Yeah, exactly. Yes, so I I I you don't see, yeah. That's that's interesting. It took me ages, just that one. But that just shows you how incompetent I am. But
No.
I've come a long way.
It's not about incomp No, no, no, no, no. It's not about your incompetence, Kris. It's just about Russian is not an easy language. So, that's the baseline.
That I have learned, uh many a time, that uh learning an easy language is uh maybe a good idea to start out with just get your confidence up. But luckily, I have this massive project, you know, this podcast, and the people who follow, the people who email, the people I meet around the world, they all expect me to keep going. So, that's how I I kept going with Russian, because otherwise I might not have lasted a month with that language. That is it it's tough. It's tough.
It is. It's all about grit.
Exactly. Yeah, I need to read that book as well. I've I've seen it before, but I must admit I haven't read it yet. At least I I haven't opened it, so I didn't have the grit to finish it. But
Uh I haven't read it either, but there's a five four minute, I think it's like four minutes and 33 second TED Talk. So I think you you know, we can do that.
Fantastic. And of course, you have a TED Talk as well, which people should see. And uh any other uh you you want to just want to give people a uh where can they find out more about you, where if they have any questions about you? Oh yeah, just wanted to, could you share if people do have some research or some information about the learning with disabilities, or maybe they have other questions for you, or they want to learn more about you. Where can they go to to find out more?
Sure. So uh my website is createyourworldbook.com. Or you could just write languagesasmusic.com. That's easier to remember. Um you can also find me on Twitter uh @languagesasmusic or on Facebook. My name, Susanna Zaraysky, but that's it's a long name, it's hard to find. So, it's easier to just find look look under languagesasmusic. And uh I'm getting a new look for my website, so it's going to be revised month to month.
Fantastic. I mean, the design isn't everything, but you you definitely have a a certain uh 90s vibe going.
Yes. Yes. Yeah, I need to get into the new century. Millennium. Yeah.
Exactly. All right. Well, thank you so much for taking your time today, Susanna. I really enjoyed it.
Yes, thank you for the invitation. Okay, bye, Kris.
You're welcome. Bye. Bye.