Emily Harris: Language Learning, Culture, and Perfectionism as a Transracial Adoptee

So, it's a really interesting story and I'm really glad that Emily reached out to me to uh go on the podcast and and share her story, as I'm sure there are many out there with similar stories of fragmented language upbringings and and culture. Maybe you're the son of diplomats, uh moving around countries and and never really having an established base or or native language, or, you know, you're an adoptee as well, and I think it's an interesting topic and and something that's worth shedding some light on and having a conversation about.

And also I want to encourage everyone to uh reach out if you have an interesting story. It doesn't have to be about your personal life, it can be about language learning, it can be about travel, culture, education, anything that uh you think listeners of this podcast might be interested in, just uh hit me up. Chris@actualfluency.com or go to actualfluency.com, just click contact at the bottom of the page. Always looking to hear from new and exciting people from all over the world. I mean, we've had, we're nearly at 200 published episodes and I I think we've got a lot of different countries and nationalities covered so far. So let's keep it going.

Before we get into the episode, I just wanted to give a quick shout-out to my bite-size language courses. These are no-frills, kind of quick to sit down and do language courses in six languages, designed to give you very easy listening practice for beginner level, which is kind of unusual. So, if you want to improve your pronunciation, vocabulary and uh even your listening skills. So when you, when native speakers are speaking really fast, you need something like bite-size languages to just repeat over and over again. And there's 100 dialogues in for each language and it comes with supplementary materials such as the translations and cultural notes and all of that stuff if you want to sit and do a normal kind of study session. I just recommend everyone to get it in the beginner stages and just listen to to the 100 dialogues like 100 times, and you will feel a a huge improvement in your target language. So check it out. bitesizelanguages.com or you can also check it out on actualfluency.com, just click courses in the top menu.

With all that said, let's dive into this week's episode. Well, Emily, welcome to the Actual Fluency podcast.

That would have probably been just my regular intro for three years ago. But I think what I would say now is kind of giving a little bit more background. Um, I never really talked about where I was born, and I think that that for me is maybe even something bigger to deal with, because I am an adoptee. Um, and I'm sure that's going to appear in the podcast episode as uh as well in the title. But I do want to clarify some things. So, I was born in Southern China. I was adopted at 16 months, um, and my parents, or I assume my parents, um, they actually left me when I was about three months old at an orphanage. Um, or I'm sorry, I was brought to the orphanage later, but at three months old, I was left on the steps of a Buddhist temple. And I was adopted at 16 months. I came back with my mom to Arkansas where I grew up my whole life. And I wanted to make that clear because that is really where, after a lot of reflection, my language learning journey has started. I came home, according to my mom, speaking just very, very simple Chinese and of course, I forgot all of that once we were really always just surrounded by American culture all the time.

And so that means that I was a transnational adoptee, right? So I was adopted from one country and brought entirely into the culture and the assimilation of another, um, into the United States. And I'm also a transracial adoptee, and that means that I am a different race from my family, and moreover, I am a different race from most of my uh any of my extended family, right? So cousins, aunts, uncles, and my friends, and pretty much anyone I saw on TV back in the early 2000s when diversity just wasn't a big thing to be represented, uh represented in the United States.

So it was hard for me to even admit that that was part of my language learning story because, um, I did completely forget that language, and it is only almost, well, over two decades later that I have come to the fact of, yes, this is when it started. It's not when I started initially learning German at 18. Um, I think it really started way back, um, when my story opened with the One-Child Policy in the 1990s and, um, that was what I was affected by. And I know that my story is pretty heavy, right? Because even just in the first 16 months, I mean, there's just so much to say and also like, not anything to say because it's such a mystery. But I think my own reflection of what I went through and how that reflection has led me to learn or avoid the languages of my language learning journey that I started at 18. It all really wraps really, really nicely around one another.

So that's what we mean by, you know, transracial, transnational adoptee. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think that initially when I did not take a lot of time to reflect on my past, I don't think I had to, I don't think I felt forced to necessarily reflect on everything that happened to me as an adoptee and as a different race from my family because no one made me feel different when I was with them. Um, it was only until I went abroad that I learned that generally, people in Germany, not everyone, but the majority, and in Italy when I was there, um, since I had spent about a semester there, they had really associated my ethnic identity to be the most important. And your ethnic identity, according to what they told me, should always be over your cultural identity. And I think I knew from pretty much all my life that my cultural identity as an American was the strongest. And that's why, I think, I started to gravitate towards more European languages because we had learned so much about European history, um, Western European history in the United States when I was growing up, so that was all I was really exposed to, just like any other American. The only difference was that my ethnic identity was Chinese. And there was really a big separation between how I identify myself and how others identified me, especially outside of the US.

And it took the pandemic to really figure out, okay, I don't think I'm doing okay. And no one taught me about this in my language learning resource books, right? I was so pretty much obsessed with always getting the best resources, um, always wanting to get better and really always chasing fluency in a language. And then this whole story of how my experience wrapped into how my language journey went and is still going, it really made me reflect on, wow, like I can't, I can't go and process and go further in my language journey without processing, you know, what happened to me, um, and how I see myself and how I identify myself, everything like that. So just the big questions that I was never taught in a language learning classroom, and I definitely wasn't taught in the language learning realm either. I didn't really know any adoptees and I really want to now be a voice, first of all, for other adoptees who might not be very comfortable sharing their story. Definitely took me a super long time, but that doesn't mean that I expect, you know, everyone to share their story, right? It's so personal and it involves a lot of nuanced emotion.

And the second thing I want to represent is that as I said before, we love learning languages and I love being part of a lot of online language communities. But I think that the stories that we hold, you know, you might not be an adoptee like me, but you do have a story, right? Chris, you have a story, and everyone else does too. They really do, and even if your story does not involve anything like adoption, you know, it's still, it still involves highs and lows. Um, and I've known other people to tell me even about perfectionism that they've really struggled with, um, even again with others telling me, yeah, I don't think I fit in. I wasn't adopted like you, but I really felt like I didn't fit into the society that, um, or society whose language I was learning. So there are so many stories that we have behind the languages that we speak and I think that they do not get recognized enough, um, compared to how many languages do you speak or how well do you speak something or can you tell me something in this language now that I know that you speak it? So I really want to be an advocate for getting to the really vulnerable side of language learning. Whatever that means for me and also whatever that means for my viewers.

So, yeah, I'm really fascinated about this and, you know, there's a lot of things we could unpack and I think like you said, I think this applies to a lot of people as well. Um, like I immediately thought of myself when when I started learning English, and I never really felt confident in my in in my home country. I don't know what it was, but for some reason, I just connected to English on a whole another level. And maybe it's some kind of escapism or like if you're not doing that well, it's kind of like exciting to be different. Um, you know, obviously as a as some kind of coping mechanism, uh that, you know, I I I don't have that kind of adoptee or or a transracial uh past, but maybe that was a defense mechanism that's kind of similar in some ways that that saw me completely disconnect from my from my country, you know, using English more than my native language of Danish and, you know, now I've lived abroad for I don't know, probably a third of my life or something like that.

So, so I just for me, I can definitely see some similarities, and I know that other people have, um, kind of similar stories, and it would be great if we could hear more of these stories, you know, maybe that's kind of a an open invitation to anyone listening to this. If you have an interesting, or actually, interesting, I mean, that's so, that's a weird word to use, but if you have an unusual story of your language learning or a culture or upbringing, whatever, you know, send me an email and we'll make it happen.

And, um, but just going, you know, having the pandemic time and trying to just navigate my way through the world just even as an adult now after college, um, that's really given me the space to really take on, I guess, see my language journey as as a whole and appreciate it in a very different light. Um, and, you know, I know I'm kind of going off here too, but I think, um, I think seeing how vulnerable and how self-compassionate I must, like I had to be with myself in order to confront my past in that way, just during my personal reflection about being an adoptee, those coping coping mechanisms are timeless, you know? Any sort of resilient, um, resilient skills that you've learned or that you've had to learn because of a difficult experience, they're timeless, and they follow you way more than any other language learning resource could give you, right? You could have all the language resources in the world, but nothing like yourself. But you do have to see sort of, you know, how can I activate that? Because it's going to look different for everyone. So.

And of course, I think with the language, right? I always said, oh no, like I don't like how Chinese sounds. I think when I was especially in Europe, I really got, I really latched onto the idea maybe that the language, especially how other cultures interpreted it, and that is the that is the key. Um, I think that Chinese kind of always sounds really ugly when it is mimicked by other people that are either, yeah, that are trying to make fun of really any Asian-looking person. And that really got infused in my head, and that also made me not want to be like, oh yeah, I want to learn Chinese. Like, why would I learn a language that people are making fun of me of? That was kind of like my my protective barrier, I think, subconsciously, that I told myself, oh yeah, like Chinese is is ugly and I don't want to learn it.

But I I think I was really protecting myself because I started, I well, let's see what day is it today. Yeah, so I started learning Chinese just through Mango Languages about, oh, let's see. I think off and on and I started about two weeks ago and I just did like the first five lessons. But that was really one of the first discoveries that I had to come to terms with. And, um, I think I wanted to approach the combination like, or really reinvestigating a lost identity. I still don't see myself as Chinese at all. Like I don't feel stuck in between identities, but I am open to discovering what could have been and then just being open to see where that takes me.

Um, and so with Chinese, I expected, you know, some of those hard feelings to come up because, you know, languages have and language learning has done so much more for me than just proving that I could do it. Like that is a great, um, that's a great realization I think for everyone to have. But I think even more, um, I I kind of thought I guess as a as a younger language learner when I was just starting out that that was really all there was. Um, showing that I could do it, showing that I could push through and everything. But it really is a tool to cope. And I think that's a little bit about what I was thinking about with learning Turkish or Arabic when I was in Germany because definitely, I didn't feel like I was belonging when people would make fun of the language they thought I spoke, like Chinese. Or they would say, oh no, you don't come from the the United States, you know, you come from China because again, your ethnic identity, that's how we identify you as. That's where you should belong to us. Why aren't you doing anything to try to belong more to that, um, this perception that we have of you?

And, um, yeah, so I think, basically, I think that it just it was really through the language as my main, like, my primary tool that even though there were some of those hard feelings that I had to process like abroad and everything with those experiences, I think picking a language, you know, picking something that I know that I can strategically accomplish, um, and know where the starting point would be and just kind of see how it goes. That was kind of the best funnel for me considering my interests in general. But it's taking control and doing it on my own terms as well, um, instead of just listening to others outside of it.

Um, so yeah, again, you know, you don't have to learn a language or learn the heritage language if you don't feel that's right for you. Um, I think some people do for various reasons, and I think also, um, there's a lot of nuanced emotion because I think for me, I'm still in the place where, yes, I'm I'm open to it, and then, you know, my heart that's still trying to protect me, um, from really, you know, uh, how should I say it? Just really difficult experiences from abroad, like, I think, um, I think that's what I've been trying to trying to maneuver with because I know that I'm ready for it, even though I know that, you know, my heart will be telling me something while my head wants me to do something else.

Um, I think, I don't know if this is making sense. I think my heart is telling me to go forward because it knows that I'm ready for this step in my life, and it knows that I can really take advantage of an interest that I already have and a good basis that I already have. And at the same time, it's like pulling me away because that's how I've always been. I've always just not wanted to go, like, even being surrounded by any Asian decoration in my house, like I felt uncomfortable. So, definitely wasn't going abroad to any Asian, um, any country where there were Asian language-speaking individuals, right? I was just anything, and even just from other Asian-looking students, like I just wouldn't associate myself with them. I would stay how I felt perceived to be like safe with the white friends that I already had and with my white family. So, I hope that sort of answered your question.

I mean, so, I think because there will be so many points of reflection for me while I am currently in the language learning process. I mean, I was interrupting myself in my study sessions like every 10 minutes because I was like, oh, I need to tell, like, I need to record this down and, um, and really keep it in my notes, not only for telling about my reflections to the entire world, but also just for me and kind of like a catalog.

So, considering all of that, um, I think for me, like, for the very first time, it is all about the the process really of learning a language. And it took a lot of, um, sitting with myself and processing a lot of frustration from my past to get me to the point where, uh, I can finally say, I'm okay. I'm okay if I'm not fluent because before that, I again, I I'd mentioned a little bit of perfectionism here and there. I definitely struggled with that, um, so, so much. That was one of the main things. And to not, to finally admit to myself and reassure myself that it is okay, you know, you're not less any any less valuable, um, or any more valuable, um, for saying, yes, my goal is fluency or not. Um, it took me a while to process that, but I think I'm I'm finally ready for that mentality, which will help me, um, in this process of also processing a language that I never thought I would learn like even two years ago.

Um, and identity, like we talked about before, I think in the language space, I think this is such an important part of it because not only do I think when you move abroad and you start learning the language, do you take on kind of a new identity. It doesn't replace your existing one, but it's like you, it's like you morph into this new thing kinda. Like you you change in a way where you're not really the same person that left, but at the same time, you're obviously not, you know, talking about people who move abroad, for example, when they're, let's say they're they're adults, it changes it changes your identity in a way that it's hard to come back, which is kind of funny. Like you and and then you end up in this void where you're a foreigner abroad, obviously, because you're not speaking at a native level. You know, you might be speaking really well, but no matter how good you speak, you're not going to remember the 1990s uh serial commercial idioms. Um, you know, you have no idea. And then when you go back, it's like it seems like a totally different place than the one you left, you know, ages and ages ago. So, I think a lot of people listening definitely can relate to a lot of those identity crises that you can have along the way.

Um, maybe partially because of uh kind of misguided uh what should you call it? Misguided uh wisdom of the parents who thinks that, you know, having that language will be a a hindrance. Uh in some cases. But of course, also, you're living in an English-speaking country and and everything is done in English, so there's there's not that push to to reintroduce that. But have you had any kind of connections with people in that space or have you been talking to other people about their experiences learning the heritage language? You mentioned that you were watching a lot of videos, you know, a couple of years ago. So I was just curious about your kind of position on on that uh the topic of of heritage language learning.

Um, I'm not sure, you know, how how personable they they would really want to be, I guess, besides that, just because of like the teacher-student relationship or I don't want to make them, um, and I I guess I don't want to I want it to be about them, right? I don't want to infuse any of my my own, uh, roomings and musings into what they experience because that is a really, really valuable experience to have just at the very beginning. Like, and it's all yours, right? No one can take that away from you and you've already set your intention. Um, and it's really beautiful to see. And so, I really enjoy hearing about those those kinds of stories. Um, because they they will usually say that, um, you know, grandma or, um, great-grandfather, they were, um, they had their origins there, and I just want to kind of rediscover what, you know, what they might have lived through or, um, even just see how everything looks now that they're gone. Um, so it's definitely a very special thing and I'm so glad. Like I'm I'm thankful to to languages for just being there and being able to be preserved in that way so that when future generations, you know, as they come up, they have the choice to go back or not.

So if if we can if the if the least we can do with with episodes like this is to encourage more people to uh keep or stick to that heritage language, or if you are the, let's say, the uh the kid, so to speak, in the story, you know, encourage to go and and learn some. You know, but of course, ideally it should be in an ideal setting, it would have been passed down because that's such an easier way to learn. You know, the parents just speak to you in in the native language, right? Um, that works incredibly well. But uh of course, that's not always easy and there's lots of uh problems with that.

And and like I said, there's a bit of misguided uh wisdom there as well from the parents, um, in in some cases. But it can also be laws. You know, I saw in in uh in Iowa, there's a little Danish town that I visited. Uh there's no Danish there anymore in terms of the language, but they're very proudly Danish in this little town. And, um, the I I talked to them about it and they said, really, if you came 80 years ago, you would have hear you would be hearing Danish all the time all over the the villages. But then the governor was like, you can't speak Danish in the church anymore. And that was like the meeting point, that was like the center of the community, right? And so they they banned Danish, forced English in the church. And within one or two generations, there was barely any Danish spoken. And then, of course, the speakers start dying out as well, because it's not passed on anymore. And that's why we get to this point in the history where, uh, you can't find a single Danish speaker there, unless there's one on loan in the in the museum or something from Denmark, you know. Yeah. Which is sad. You know, it's really sad.

And, um, yeah, I think also if if there is any sort of like resistance, because I felt definitely resistance against learning any heritage language, um, I think that it's important to just know, you know, that's that's okay. That's also just part of your story, right? And if you don't feel like it's the right time for you or it'll never be the right time for you to learn any heritage language that you may have, then that is certainly okay. Um, again, it adds to your story, and the way your story is, you know, it's valuable, and, um, just do what what feels most authentic to you.

I think that's really as I've gone through this whole language learning journey, and I think this is what the language learning experience has taught me utmost is to really like find your way back to yourself, right? However that looks like for you. Um, if it's possible, of course, as I said, with, um, with some heritage languages, unfortunately, not being available for whatever reason. But, um, yeah, again, just I just love talking about languages in this way too, because uh again, as I'd given you my very first version of how I used to speak about myself in regards to language learning. I was like, well, I think for me, uh, I was just scratching the surface and there was so much more to be discovered. So,

So, initially, I'd picked Germany because I knew that there were a lot of American expats there. And that was literally the only reason. I also just wanted to go abroad to escape my problems, which this is coming from like a a 17-year-old perspective. I was just still had a lot to learn about the world. And so, but I did approach it from kind of like a beautifully naive point. And I thought, well, if I just learn the basics, then they'll also be able to speak to me in English and then I'll be able to speak English with the American expats and everything. And then six months later, of course, I discovered, wow, like I really love this, and I'm capable of doing it. So, I guess the wish, initial wish, of being with a lot of German native speakers that I knew could probably speak English really well anyways, and knowing that they had already, um, had a lot of American expats there. I think that is what tempted me towards German the most. And then afterwards, I was like, wow, that's that is that was that was just me doubting myself. But it is pretty ironic how how things ended up.

So, so that's also an interesting perspective that doesn't get talked about a lot, which is uh, you know, just, you know, jump in and if if you like it, you know, keep going. And and the the process and the accomplishments you get along the way will serve as that fuel. You know, you don't need, you know, as much as we're talking about this heritage language learning and, you know, these uh identity questions, you know, someone like me, for example, who's uh, uh, you know, I haven't been able to found find a single ancestor who was uh born outside of Denmark. And we went back, I think about, I don't know, probably 3x great-grandfather or something like that, maybe 4x. Um, so, you know, I don't have, you know, a great, great uh uncle from Russia or, you know, as far as we know at least. Uh so there's no grand reason. Uh and and maybe that doesn't need to be one all the time.

And then I would like to after I get a hold more of a of the dialect in Arabic that I'm learning, um, which is just the the Levantine dialect in general. Then I want to go back to the like the modern standard Arabic just because I think that there's, I think there's so much more that I could learn even just about the literature or being able to read newspapers, even, um, just being able to read a lot more in general because I'm mainly just speaking for the dialect. So I do want to be able to practice reading a lot more. Um, so yeah, but those those are definitely for for the future, way in the future.

And so, I was just like, okay, like I have to be okay with just not knowing and tripping up a lot more. Like, and I think I tripped up equal amounts, but I think my my perfectionism like made me feel like I was tripping up less because I loved learning the grammar. And I think my main method for about the first five years of language learning was really honing in on the grammar. And it made me just feel really confident, but it also just maximized the perfectionist tendencies as high as they could go to the fact of just like, I mean, I think even last year, I was like, I cannot do this anymore. Like I'm stopping language learning for about nine months, and that's exactly what I did. I may have, you know, listened, um, off and on to something in another language, but I was like, I really need a break because this perfectionism thing and I don't think I knew to call it perfectionism at the time. I just knew that I was really, really stressed out and overwhelmed with my own thinking process of how I thought about even language learning because eventually, language learning just became another thing on the to-do list and it caused me just a lot of stress, as I mentioned before. So, whenever it starts feeling that way, I was like, I I better take a break, which was one of the most beneficial things I've ever done in language learning.

Um, so, definitely now, I would say that, I mean, man, I think part of my perfectionism was also making sure that I stuck to a regular study schedule. And this year, I have not done that at all. In fact, last year, I also didn't really do it at all. I mean, I've gone through breaks of again, that nine months where I didn't study anything. And then, um, there would be times where I'd be like, okay, like I can do something every day and I I was on the ball. And, um, something would happen in personal life or I would just feel extremely exhausted physically from what I was doing outside of language learning that, um, I just I couldn't do it. Like I sometimes I physically couldn't do it. And, um, it was just really practicing like over and over again, like meeting myself where I was and accepting how I was in the moment, you know, apart from any sort of, um, of any goal that I had, you know, personally, um, implemented on myself or set up for myself.

Um, so nowadays, it's just like, well, if I didn't study, then that's okay. Well, if I show a video where I make a few mistakes here and there, if I don't speak as fast as I think I should, um, on YouTube when I, you know, talk in a foreign language, then so be it because, um, I think I even posted on Twitter today, like I I'm going to be honest and say, my fluency literally changes from even in one conversation, um, even daily. And it just depends, and I've learned to finally be okay with that. And it it's such a more joyous way of living in your language. It really is because before that I was like, uh, I'm like, uh, I'm clenching my knuckles together just trying to fight through it. And that is not a healthy way for me to think about something that really brought me joy, um, and still brings me a lot of joy, but I think it really is varied under how I, you know, my mindset about it. So,

And I think how I kind of like to see it now is even if I do take breaks, I plan in like a week of like intensive studying, which I found has worked really well for me. And usually after a break, like I'll be really, really energized and be ready to get back into it. And, you know, I think I'm I'm pretty gentle with myself if again, for example, something in my personal life comes up. Um, and I don't have the capacity to really think about anything else but that. But I do usually plan like a a full that can be anywhere from like one week up until three weeks of consistency. Because I think ultimately, that's how like, I mean, that's how, as I look back, I've always kind of learned languages. Um, is because I've taken a really big break with every language that I've learned. Um, from like a few months up until like a year, like I did for Turkish. So, but the fact is, like I've I've kept on going at some point, and just kind of, um, I guess I've learned about myself that once I keep it kind of all in a calendar, and I kind of see what I've done, and am able to like fill the calendar out with, you know, whatever languages I learned that day, with what skill I worked on, um, during those weeks or periods of consistency, um, like intensive consistency, then, you know, that that's worked for me. And I feel like after even a break, like I can come back. I can still prove to myself that I can come back, um, strong, and I can review things faster, um, with every after every break that I take. Does that make sense?