Hēmi Kelly: Māori Language and Culture
Kris Broholm hosts Hēmi Kelly to discuss Māori language and culture. Hēmi introduces Māori as New Zealand's indigenous language, part of the Polynesian family, and explains its current status as the second most spoken language. They examine the historical context and interaction between language groups in New Zealand.
November 6, 2020 · 41 min
EP 180: Hēmi Kelly: Māori Language and Culture
0:00 / 41:16
Guest
Hēmi Kelly
What You'll Hear
- 1 Welcome, Sponsor & Guest Intro
- 2 What is Te Reo Māori?
- 3 The Decline: Colonial Laws & Pressures
- 4 Revitalization: Language on the Rise
- 5 Modern Status & Future Bilingual Goals
- 6 Understanding Pākehā Identity in NZ
- 7 Hēmi's Journey & Learning Options
- 8 Language: Culture, Identity & Worldview
- 9 Closing Thoughts & Māori Message
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
What is the Maori language and culture?- 2m
What is the historical context of the Maori language in New Zealand?- 6m
What is the current status and future outlook for the Maori language in New Zealand?- 17m
What is the term for non-Maori New Zealanders?- 23m
How did Hēmi Kelly become involved in Maori language revitalization?- 28m
What are the available options for learning the Maori language in New Zealand?- 32m
Related Episodes
See all →
Welcome to the Actual Fluency podcast. With Kris Broholm. This show will inspire, motivate and teach you how to learn foreign languages the best way. On this show, you'll hear incredible stories from amazing language learners who've learned five to 10, even 30 plus languages, as well as industry experts who help shape modern language learning through innovation and research. As we dive into language learning methods, techniques and apps, you'll quickly discover what works and what doesn't. This is the Actual Fluency podcast, and this is Kris Broholm.
I want to start off this episode by giving a quick shout out to the show sponsor, OptiLingo. Janty and the team have been amazing for Actual Fluency in terms of support, especially in the in this very uncertain year. They've also been supporting the Polyglot Cruise. And so I just want to say a big thanks to OptiLingo. And um, do go check them out if you want to say goodbye to boring drills and memorization, and start talking rather than typing into, you know, boring flash cards. So check out OptiLingo and let's get into the show.
All right, I've pressed the record button. We are live. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I know it's uh, it's early for you down under, but uh, because this topic is a little bit alien and foreign to most Europeans and maybe a lot of people around the world. I was hoping you could start out this recording by giving us a little introduction to what is the Maori culture and the language and what got you involved in so the spreading it around the internet.
Hmm. Kia ora, Christopher. Um, that means hello in Maori. Uh, I just to give you a bit of context, um, so the Maori language is the indigenous language of New Zealand, and and I'm aware that even some people don't know where New Zealand is, but um, you can look on the map to find out, to find out where New Zealand is if you're unsure where that is. But it's the indigenous language of New Zealand and it's a part of the Polynesian language family. So, um, within the Pacific, there are a number of islands. You're probably aware of Tahiti, Hawaii, Tonga, Samoa, some of those, those bigger islands. And then New Zealand is at the bottom of the Pacific. And so we're a part of that language family. The language isn't dissimilar to to Hawaiian. Um, or Tahitian. It's it's very similar, in fact. And and they're our closest, um, language relative would be be Cook Islands language. Um, which is about a four-hour flight from New Zealand. It's it's probably our little Pacific Ocean getaway where we go for holidays the most.
Um, And so it's this the second most spoken language in New Zealand next to to English. Um, through our colonial history, um, English has has now become the the dominant language in the country that that everyone speaks. The language of instruction in schools, the language of media, uh, and then Maori is the the language that's spoken most commonly second to English. Um, if you want to ask me any questions, I'll be happy to answer. I'm but that's a an overview of the, I suppose, the context and relation to the language and where it comes from.
Yeah, fantastic. And then I'm sure a lot of people don't have a clue where New Zealand is. I can tell you if you're listening from Europe, it's a very far away. If you're it's quite far away. You know, pretty much everywhere it's like uh pretty far away. But um, and and funny, funny side note. I mean, you're in New Zealand, I'm actually on the Danish island of Sealand, which I don't know if that makes it Old Zealand or not, but um, so we have a a little bit of a connection there.
But um, I I think the the interesting part for for a lot of people is what is kind of the the status of the language and and how do the different groups interact like I'm sure a lot of Americans when they hear indigenous, they think the relationship between sort of the the native tribes of the the Indian tribes of the US. Uh, is that a similar relationship or can you give us a little bit of of a description of how that works in in New Zealand?
Yeah, um, well, I'll do a little bit of a timeline maybe and and and it's funny you bring that up because we we were named by a Dutch explorer, um, who called us New Zealand, so there must have been a Zealand somewhere in his area of the world. Uh, and then it was uh, 1769, I believe, Captain Cook kind of came after the Dutch and then ended up settling the country. Um, so so that was the the Brits. And you know, over time, more and more people started to settle in the country. We had English, Irish, Welsh coming and and settling in the country in those formative years. Uh, it wasn't until 1840. So some 50, 60 years after the the first arrivals that, uh, there was an actual treaty drawn up between the British Crown and and the tribes of New Zealand. So, traditionally, uh, society was tribal. Um, we weren't necessarily one people, but we did speak the same language. Uh, which was to our benefit. And I've I've been over in the States a number of times and had exchanges with indigenous communities there to talk about language revitalization. And um, and I I know there that the languages are very distinct and very different even from from neighboring tribes. But here in New Zealand, uh, we're quite fortunate and when it comes to language revitalization that that we, despite small dialectal differences, we do speak the same language. And so a tribe was drawn up, a treaty was drawn up between the British Crown, um, and and the tribes of of New Zealand, the Maori tribes of New Zealand. Uh, essentially what that treaty said is we will, you know, protect you and your lands and you'll get to still have access and and rule over your lands, but we're gonna sit up here.
And uh, and and then once that treaty was signed, uh, it was um, disregarded for a number of years and um, the the British began their their conquest and they were they'd been doing that for a long, long time. We were kind of last in the, I think in the in the line of um, colonization. There were many other countries that have been colonized before New Zealand. And so, um, they knew what they were doing. Uh, and uh, once once Parliament and and law was established in the country, um, not only did they start to kind of uh, push Maori out and and alienate them from their own lands, but they uh, physically, but they started to do that with with um, with legislation as well. And that really did affect the the livelihood and the health of our language. Um, when you start to lose your land and your culture, the language starts to to go as well. And also the pressures to assimilate, um, we're felt. And so, one of the biggest things that really led to the decline in our language was, um, a piece of legislation called the Native Schools Act, which was, um, brought into law in 1867, 69, I believe. And that was the first piece of legislation that banned our language being spoken. And, um, that was in any school. So, um, in any kind of, uh, schooling institution, um, Maori children were banned from speaking their language. Not only banned, they were punished and strapped for speaking their language. And so, that piece of legislation was in place for nearly 100 years. My grandmother went to a native school, and she was punished for speaking her language when she was a child.
Uh, and the other piece of or the other factor that really led to the decline in our language was the, um, was the urban drift after World War II. Um, New Zealand and a lot of Maori in particular fought, uh, in World War II. And in coming home, uh, a lot of Maori started to move from our traditional, um, areas. Uh, lands into the bigger towns and cities for work. And again, the pressure again to assimilate, to to be white, to speak the English language was was really strong. And my grandmother was of that, um, generation. She was a native speaker, but she didn't speak Maori to her children because, because of those pressures. She did believe, she was of the idea that in order to succeed, for her children to succeed in this this world, they didn't need their Maori language and they needed English. Uh, and so she was, that was a really common story in a lot of families, um, Maori families in New Zealand, where the grandparents, my grandparents, uh, or the great-grandparents spoke the language, but decided, made an active choice because of those pressures not to speak the language to their children.
So, in the 1960s, um, this this huge decline was noticed. And, um, people started to kind of wake up to the idea that if shit if we don't do anything now, our language will die. Um, and so there was a lot of movement on the ground in the 1960s through to the 1970s. Uh, people were petitioning the government to do something about it. They had, um, they were tied to do something about it because of the treaty that had been signed in 1840, which was still a legal binding document, and that is the founding document of our country. So there was petition, um, to the government, there was, uh, a tribunal set up, a a court that deals with treaty injustices. And so, the confiscation of land, the illegal confiscation of land, um, things like this, where the language was, um, you know, beaten out of the people. And so we were able through that treaty to set up certain institutions and things that helped revitalize our language.
Um, in the 90s, 70s, we saw the establishment of early childhood centers that would only teach Maori, um, then primary schools followed, then high schools followed, then media followed. And and over decades, this has all happened. But now we are really, um, seeing the fruits of those efforts to revitalize the language in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, where now we have, um, two TV channels. We have multiple radio stations. We have bilingual signage, um, in parts of the country. We have full immersion preschools and primary schools. Um, we even have, uh, two, three universities that are Maori themed and focused and do use the language a lot. Uh, so yeah, we're we're not in a we're not we're not we're still in a vulnerable position because we're a minority, um, and and our language has been minoritized. But it's on the rise and, um, we're we're we're doing we're doing okay.
Great. Well, I I can't wait to hear a little bit more of of what's happening, uh, you know, in in 2020 and uh, going forward. But I just want to remark on on the idea that was it 1860 you said, you know, banning a language. I mean, it just to me it just gives me goosebumps because that's like, I mean, that's that's like just robbing people of their identity, their culture. And uh, you know, one thing is banning, like you said, but also, you know, actually punishing later on for using it is uh, arguably even worse. And I've seen and we've actually heard on the podcast before also with with uh, similar historical, um, you know, timelines that a ban led to the decline. And uh, I guess it's it's just lucky that some people got the idea, you know, early early enough to uh, to turn the tide because uh, yeah, there's no doubt that that would have the trend would have continued downwards, I'm sure.
Definitely. Yeah.
It's it's a scary thought that uh, people, I mean, it was a very it's a much less globalized world, so of course, we it's hard to imagine what people were thinking back then, but with modern eyes, it's just just a horrible thought, I I find. But you know, that's that's just uh, my little comment there. Um, and of course the the British also, we have mentioned the the colonial ages not the not the best best of times, uh, they've shown, but um, there are a lot of uh, instances of of of those, um, aftermath all over the world.
But what how does it look today? You know, if if if we come to kind of the modern culture, is it, you know, uh, try to paint the picture for us of what does it mean to speak the language, be part of the group in sort of a a modern era? Because obviously there's a it's a long time since the colonial times, so it might be hard for people to visualize. Um, so can you tell us a little bit more about what's happening sort of to keep the momentum going of course, but are you headed do you do you think it's headed for like a bilingual bilingualization? I don't know if that's a word even of the country where eventually New Zealand's gonna be fully bilingual or what how do you think it's it's going?
It's um, and in terms of numbers, uh, there there hasn't been really any solid numbers come out since 2013, which is when our last census was, which makes me think, gosh, there must have been a census recently, because that's a long time ago. But, uh, 2013, um, are kind of the last solid numbers we have. It's probably time someone did do a survey. Uh, which said that there were around 125,000 speakers, about 21% of Maori speak the language and about 3% of the people living in New Zealand speak the language. I think that's definitely, um, risen. That there are more speakers now. Anecdotally, I'm seeing much more happen. Uh,
What's the total population, sorry?
The total population of New Zealand? Oh, it's about, let's see. I'm just googling this. It's close to 5 million.
All right.
So I think, so there's about a quarter, quarter of a million, um, who speak the language. Uh, the government has recently made a commitment to have 1 million speakers by 2040. So 20 years, they've set this this goal. And of course, they are, um, doing things and putting things in place to help, um, achieve that goal. Quite an audacious goal, but there is support from the government. There is support, and of course, Maori are in the government as well. It's not like Maori are removed or separate or live, um, the, um, you know, secluded life in New Zealand. Uh, Maori in general are very much a part of the New Zealand society in terms of positions of power and in Parliament and whatnot. Um, so for anyone listening, we're not living out in the back blocks on reservations and and we're not in we are very much involved in the in the in the goings on of the country. So there has been this commitment made from, um, Parliament to to achieve that goal and so things have been put in place.
Uh, we just celebrated last two weeks ago, Maori Language Week, which is an event that happens every year where, um, it's an opportunity for the whole country to kind of come on board and support the language. And in that week, uh, that's been going since the 1970s, since the the start of the the the that revitalization period. And during that week, uh, I saw mainstream news, you know, our our our our big news channels, mainstream, um, artists, just businesses, organizations, everyone kind of comes on board and celebrates the language, participates in speaking and learning little bits of the language. So as a country, um, we are moving towards the space now where people are starting to, uh, accept the language as ours, whether we're Maori or not, that it belongs to this country. It's unique to this country. It's what makes us unique. It's taken a long time, but in general, that idea has started to shift. Um, we're starting to see value in the language, I believe, as a nation.
Um, and a good example of this is, um, the Haka. We might be recognized, um, internationally by the Haka, which is the the the dance that our our national rugby team, the All Blacks, do before they before they play a match. Um, and we've become quite famous for that. So, traditionally, there's been elements of the culture that non-Maori or New Zealanders in general like to take pride in. And the language has kind of been the last part, you know, the food, the the dance, the those sorts of things people are are quite proud of or, um, happy to say that that's part of their culture as well as a New Zealander. But the language is unfortunately and sadly been that last part where people are like, oh yes, and and we also value the language. But I believe we are coming to that space as a country. Bilingualism is probably the long-term goal. That would be amazing to see bilingual signage throughout the country. Bilingual media and all of that, um, as well.
Yeah, well, something to to work towards at all times and I'm I'm totally happy that you uh, explained, uh, you oversimplified a few of the things and and and say some things that I'm sure people who are, you know, historically aware, you know, uh, might know, uh, or or think is completely obvious. But I can only say for myself, and I'm usually a pretty good yardstick for for like the average, uh, listener, especially from Europe, that we have so many kind of, you know, existing notions or presuppositions about, uh, you know, other cultures and languages. And especially when it's so remote for us, so far away geographically, it can be very very easy to fall into thinking like what you just said that, you know, it's a it's a like a tribal setup, you know, where it's like, you know, us versus them kind of setup. So, so I appreciate that you you take the time to explain it in in a little bit more, you know, in the in the basics because honestly, I don't know and I I'm sure a lot of people that listen that that don't know it either.
But, um, you know, is there sort of a, I noticed that when you refer to to Mari, you you say it sort of we there's a clearly a, you know, there's a difference between the groups. There's a New Zealanders as a whole. And within that, you have Demari and what do you call the other group? Just out of interest because I've heard some interesting names from uh, the Amish call everyone who's not Amish English, which I think is funny. Uh, you know, that's that's a good one. And uh, I know there's also uh names from um, from the the Indian tribes of the US. Um, a lot of them, uh, that I probably shouldn't mention. But uh, how does that work? You know, just to bring it down to the basics for us again?
Yeah, well, um, yeah, I say we because I identify as as as a Maori person, um, although I am mixed, my mother's Maori and my dad's, um, first generation Irish, Dutch. Um, New Zealand's a very young country. I think that's the other thing that people who are listening, who don't know much about the country need to be mindful of that we were, um, okay, no, Maori have been here for a long time, but in terms of officially setting up a nation, that didn't happen until 1840, when that when that treaty was signed. So we're only, oh, what's I'm not good at maths. We're around 200 around around yeah, around 200 years old as a country. So, um, there's been a lot of immigrants coming from all over the world, the majority from the UK.
And um, we call those people Pakeha. And Pakeha is a a word for someone who has light skin. That's that's really what it means. So, right. Um, it actually goes back to some of our our our narratives, um, we we we talk about different fairy folk in our in our narratives. Some of them live in the bush in the forest and some of them live in the sea. And one of these fairy folk, kind of similar to leprechauns maybe in in Ireland. One of these fairy folk, they uh are called Pakehaha. And they come from the sea. And so you can imagine these big ships arriving and Maori seeing these these light-skinned people for the first time. They gave them the same name as these fairy folk that we talk about in our narrative. So that's where the name comes from. Pakeha.
There's been so much, uh, you know, through the history of colonization and and the fight of Maori against the British and British against the Maori, that that, um, that story has been construed. And you hear things like, oh, Pakeha means white pig or white rat or white flea. And it really doesn't. Um, it does just mean someone of light skin. Uh, it's it's a name now that a lot of people identify with, who because, um, in New Zealand, when you identify on the census, you identify as a New So you either identify with your ethnic or or racial groups, so Maori, we have a lot of Samoan immigrants, Tongan immigrants, uh, Chinese and so on, Indian. And then if you're white, the I the the way to identify yourself is New Zealand European. And a lot of people have been five, six generations in New Zealand, um, since their ancestors arrived from Europe, from either the UK or Europe. So a lot of people are starting to say, I don't agree with this, um, identity marker. I am not a New Zealand European. I'm a New Zealander. And some people are saying, I'm a Pakeha. Some people have started to really embrace that term, um, as a as an identity marker to show that they are of that, they are descendants of those people who first immigrated here from UK or Europe. Um, so that's how we, yeah, identify ourselves.
Awesome. Very clear, very clear. And I I find the term New Zealand European kind of funny because it's so far back geographically. You know, it's you almost couldn't be further apart, but you know, I know we I understand totally where it comes from. Um, but I'm also reminded of like the American way of you go to New York or something, you meet an American and you know, they say things like, I'm Irish. And it's like, you know, their seventh time grandmother came here or something, you know, and they still say, I'm Irish. Which is a kind of a a funny way to use the language. But no, but that's really cool. And and when did you first start getting involved yourself in the kind of preservation and well, even the revitalization and the kind of uh, sharing the And actually, sorry, I I just bring this in here. I forgot to do this earlier, but the uh, the reason that I learned about you and your name is because a listener called Emma Mooney wrote in, she is uh, a member of your Facebook page. Um, a Maori phrase a day. Yeah. And uh, she said that she's learning the language and she's been listening to, she says, my fascinating podcast. That's nice. Uh, every time I hear it, I think that you really enjoy speaking to you, Mickey Kelly, who are today. He's very involved in getting people learning Te Reo Maori, New Zealand's native language, which was almost lost.
That pronunciation.
Oh, well, thank you. Well, maybe I'm a I'm a natural. Um, so I just want to say thank you to Emma for for uh, suggesting and if anyone listening out there has any suggestions for a guest, it could be uh, similar to today like with a specific culture or language and uh, you know, um, historical um, context. But it could also be somebody who does something for uh, language learning in in in other parts of the world or any kind of aspects. So I just wanted to to to say thank you to Emma for uh, sharing that. And um, you know, so the Facebook page, I assume is is part of your own kind of projects. But when did you first get involved in in the in the uh, in the efforts?
Yeah, um, so I didn't grow up with the language. So I said earlier, my um, grandmother spoke, my mum didn't. She was, uh, so I grew up in an English-speaking home and, but, uh, there was always elements of the multicultural home because you know, I had a Maori grandmother, an Irish grandfather, a Dutch grandmother. So it was very there was elements of all those three cultures in my upbringing. Uh, but because of where I live in New Zealand, like the the the Maori culture was always very present and when we would go to family gatherings, or even just in the home, um, was very persistent in making sure me and my sister knew who we were as Maori, even though she didn't have the language. So, I was always interested from a young age and wanted to learn more, um, especially when I'd go to these events or, um, our funerals in particular, we have these a lot of, I suppose, ritual happens in in our funerals. And so you're hearing the language being spoken. I always was curious, I want to know what they're saying, I want to know what they're laughing about. And so I started to learn, um, as a young person and then just continued on in while I was at high school in my teenage years. And then, um, reached a level of fluency probably around 18, 18 years old. But you know, you know, with language, it's an it's there's not an end line. You just continue learning all the time. And um, which I did.
And then eventually I got into teaching, um, which is kind of a natural progression for people here in New Zealand who learn to do. There's there's media, there's teaching, there's actually there's a lot of jobs you can get into with the language, but those are kind of the main main ones where people end up going. Uh, so I moved into that area and started to really want to, uh, help people who are in the same position as me at some point, who were either Maori or non-Maori. A lot of non-Maori use and speak the language as well. Um, not they they are the majority minority when it comes to the speakers of the language, but there are non-Maori. I wanted to help those people who also wanted to learn and and share with them what I had learned. Uh, so I started teaching and eventually got a job at, um, at at the one of the universities here in Auckland, which is where I work now and teach the language. AUT, the Auckland University of Technology.
Uh, and then that when the lockdown happened, um, here in New Zealand, the the first lockdown, when the, um, pandemic pandemic really hit New Zealand, we we went down went into full lockdown, um, as a country for about six weeks. And, uh, I had some spare time on my hands, so I thought I'll I'll carry on what I'm doing, teaching, but I'll just do it on social media. And and so if if anyone wants want to learn a little bit of Maori or an introduction to the language, then they can check out our Maori phrase a day, which is the name of that Facebook group.
Awesome. I mean, we're all learning new ways to to uh, learn just about anything in this uh, kind of lockdown period. But um, do you want to tell us a little bit about the language, uh, sort of uh, you know, uh, if people out there, is it, are there a lot of materials available for learning it? Uh, has the government made any kind of official language schools? Uh, is it offered in in high school throughout New Zealand? Like what what are people's actual options for for learning the language?
Yeah, um, so options of learning the language, if you have if you have young children, um, you can there are preschools which are full immersion preschools. Um, I think there's just off the top of my head, over 400 throughout the country. So, um, you don't have to be living in a largely populated area. A lot of our small towns throughout the country, in fact, a lot of our rural towns and different areas are populated largely by Maori. Um, and so there are preschools that that only that the language of instruction isn't Maori. They're called Kohanga Reo, which means the the language nest. Um, then those those children who are brought up in that in the language nests, they carry on, they may carry on into, um, Maori medium education in primary school. So there's those options available throughout the country as well. Um, for your for your small children to continue learning in the language. And so, they'll learn science, maths, every every subject in in Maori, apart from English, of course. Uh, yeah, that'll be taught in English. Um, and then that continues on up into into high school years as well. So, someone in New Zealand could stay in Maori medium education from zero all the way through to 17, 18. Once they hit university, um, there are very few options to continue learning at a high level in the language.
Um, as an adult, if if you're wanting to learn the language, uh, if you don't have access to people in your own family or community, um, then you'd you'd need to kind of sign up for a course. And so there's courses available throughout the country as well at different learning institutions like universities and polytechnics. Um, or there's community courses, uh, at colleges and things like that that people can sign up for and and they do a night class, maybe three hours a week, something like that. Those are the kind of main options available to people. Uh, of course, there's informal learning as well, but not everyone has a connection to someone who speaks Maori. Some people are quite isolated from the language.
Um, and for those people, I I always encourage them to to use, uh, technology. So there is a lot of stuff now online. There's online courses, there's there's different channels on YouTube, there's a there's a couple of podcasts, not a not a not a lot. I have a podcast which is still in its infancy called Everyday Maori. And there there are a couple of others, Taringa is another one. Uh, and there's a few apps that are starting to come out now as well. Um, so that kind of that area, the the technology area, I suppose, where, um, is is starting to grow in terms of uh, teaching Te Reo Maori. So those are the kind of the the options available to anyone here and also elsewhere who wants to learn.
Very nice. And uh, good job on uh, starting a podcast as well. You know, I've been doing this for quite a while and it's it's definitely a very rewarding experience and whenever you get an email from somebody saying they enjoyed the the work you do that's it makes it all all worth it and it's a it's a great technology for language and uh, definitely uh, a great medium for uh, and also relatively convenient for the listener and the the host. You know, it's not too technically complicated to listen to a podcast these days. Um, but I just checked, uh, just as a random, uh, side note, I just checked uh, U-Talk has a has a Maori course. Um, they they have I think they have about 250 languages now, so, uh, I'm good friends with them over at uh, U-Talk so I just wanted to give them a little plug there. Their course is in there. It's uh, uh, sort of a phrase a digital phrase book kind of version. Um, so that's definitely a recommendation.
Um, but it's funny and I just also wanted to plug a previous episode. I talked to uh, a Gallic Scottish Gallic speaker, uh, some months ago or maybe it's actually last year where we talked about uh, the decline of Scottish Gallic in Scotland. And the the situation is is almost exactly the same. You know, it's it's you know, it gets squashed by English. Then there's a revitalization. And now actually it's reached the point where there are universities where it's entirely taught in in Scottish Gallic. So if people are interested in these kind of, um, language success stories and and revitalization, definitely go listen to that one. And and funnily enough, the the guy I was talking to that day as well, um, he had a similar story of growing up hearing a lot of the the language but not wasn't taught the language and they didn't speak it at home. So when he set out as an adult to kind of reconnect with his culture, that was primarily through language. And I guess that's the kind of the the important part as well is that you're not just learning a language, you know, it's you you you're kind of you're reconnecting with with who you are and your your history and your personal culture and connection to society. So it's it's kind of a big deal, you know?
Exactly. And I mean, for myself that's that's definitely the reason why I was motivated to learn and and the more I learned, I the more I learned about myself as a Maori person, the more I learned about my my history, the more I learned about my my culture and and learned about the things we do, but also the reasons why we do them, you know, we as as a people we we identify with different cultural groups, we we do certain things, but sometimes we don't, um, even ask ourselves why we do these these things the way we do them. And and in learning my language was really a an eye-opener to a Maori worldview. That's what it is. You know, you're learning a different worldview, a way of looking at the world, a way of understanding the world. And and that is probably the most enjoyable thing in learning in learning another language, um, not only my own language, but but in particular your own language. You know, when you have a a connection, like a blood connection to a to a culture and language, that makes it a whole lot more enjoyable. And and more meaningful.
And then people in in Aotearoa, in New Zealand, who are Pakeha, who who don't identify as Maori, I've heard I've heard there them say that for them it's been it's given them a a better understanding of who they are as a New Zealander, you know, and and and it's it's created this new connection for them to this this land and this place they call home, this place they've known as home forever. Um, in in in knowing the language and I those kind of stories are starting to spread now and other people who who in the past the New Zealand who don't identify as Maori, who kind of thought, well, you know, what's the point? I'm not Maori, I don't what it's it's there's no relation to me, I don't there's no use, there's no relevance. And those stories are starting to spread and people are starting to go, oh, okay, this language does belong to me as well, because I live here and this is, you know, this is I'm connected to this this land through whatever reasons. And and this language belongs to this land. So I and so those kind of ideas that are very normal when you go to another country, say you go and live in, I don't know, Spain. You at some point you do need to learn the language, right? In order to live there quite comfortably, connect to the people and the place. And so that those kind of ideas that what should be normal in any country where there's an indigenous language, are starting to spread here and people are going, oh, okay, I do have a connection to this language. And there is a there is value in learning it.
Fantastic. Yeah, and I would say you said it well when you said it's not just about this language or, you know, any specific language, it's the general act of learning another language. You know, obviously, the more connected you are to it personally the better. Um, but I would say a lot of the people listening who are learning, you know, uh, you know, could be Italian, could be Spanish for whatever reason, the joy of seeing a native speaker hear you speak that language. I would say that in it of itself is a huge positive and uh, and something that is a great starting point and then you get that from just learning how to say how are you, you know, good morning. And uh, that's kind of the idea of of certainly the podcast here, but also the whole kind of brand that built up with actual fluency is is to spread that message that, you know, language learning is just a wonderful activity in general, full stop.
But it's not only that, it's also, you know, for the reasons that we just discussed about cultural identity and belonging and, you know, you said you said blood culture as well, which is obviously a a very personal connection to the language if your grandmother or even closer family, uh, were native speakers of it. Um, but it's also it's also a a personal development in a way. It's a way to I guess it sounds a little bit cliche, but it's like you find yourself as well in at the end of it, even if it's you're learning a completely different language because you also, whatever you learn about other people's culture, you also reflect and mirror it to what you know about your own. So it's kind of to me that's that's why I mean you asked me before we started recording, uh, why I went into languages and and this is exactly why.
Hmm. Hmm.
The the wonderful feel-good moments and uh, positive stories. Of course, there are many horrible things, but hopefully most of them are in the past. Um, but um, thank you so much for coming on and and sharing your story with the world and I'll be sure to put the links to the the resources we talked about in the description. Um, here at the end, do you want to just record a quick 10, 15 second message in Maori to the people who are learning it or even speakers who who are tuning in, um, listening right now?
Uh, yeah, I could do. Um, yeah. I you.
Fire away. We're gonna put it in the episode.
Okay. Tena koutou katoa, e te iwi, e nga mana. Kia kaha koutou, e aku anei i te reo Maori. Kia kaha te te ako. Kia kaha hoki te korero. Tena tatou.
Wow. That's uh, definitely uh, a fantastic sounding language. Um, so for the for the for the three of us who did don't speak Maori, can you just summarize what you said?
Uh, I just said I just, you know, kind of greetings to everyone who's listening and um, if you are learning the language, um, be strong in learning and speaking the language.
Wow. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you so much for for waking up early for recording this and and sharing your passion and culture with us. Really appreciate it.
No problem. Um, I look forward to, um, seeing it or listening to it at some point and listening to some other episodes as well on your podcast. Um, I'll send you through, um, yeah, there's just