Michele Frolla: Travelling and Languages the Intrepid Way!

On the show today, I've got Michelle from The Intrepid Guide. Michelle is an Australian travel blogger, who now lives in London, UK. And we are talking today about how you can enhance your travels both with or without languages. I mean, there are lots of tips and tricks in this episode that Michelle is sharing on how we can just in general have better experiences.

And the reason that I bring on a travel blogger, I mean she does write about languages as well, as as we'll get into the episode. But the reason I do that is because I think traveling and language learning are invariably linked. So, if you're just going to learn language to sit in your basement and, you know, not really use it, that's fine. That's to each their own. But I think the most of the people who want to learn languages want to actually use it for traveling.

And sometimes you'd be surprised how far you can take just a few sentences or just a little phrasebook collection of words and phrases to to actually get a a much better experience, or maybe you get discounts or special treatment. Um, but I hope you enjoy this episode with Michelle, and I'll see you in the next one. What is the what is The Intrepid Guide and what gave you the idea to to start it?

So it was at least a year later that a colleague at work, um, had sort of as a passing comment again, he said to someone else, 'Oh, you should just start a blog.' And I wasn't part of the conversation but I overheard it. And I turned around and I said, 'What? What are you talking about?' He's like, 'Yeah, start a blog and then you can make your income that way.' And I'm like, 'What? How does that even work?' And this was, you know, three and a half years ago. So yeah, long story short, it didn't take me very long to decide, 'Yeah, I'm going to give this a go.' Cause maybe I could switch because I was sort of at that point where, you know, I've been doing web design since I left university, and I still enjoy it, but I feel like I'm ready for a career change, and maybe this could be it.

Um, so yeah, he coached me a little bit. He's like, you know, get a WordPress, uh, blog, uh, website, set it up. You know, just get like the cheapest hosting, so there's like minimal, um, uh, that you don't have to invest in it. That you don't really need much to get started. And he's like, 'Just start writing.' You know? I'm like, 'Oh, okay.' So he's like, 'I'm not going to overwhelm you with all the particulars, but just get started. That's the hardest part, you know, come up with a name, create a logo, and then just start writing about stuff.'

Um, and then he ended up leaving and retiring on whatever he was doing, he wouldn't really share too much, um, but yeah, he sort of created his own online business, and he was now retiring because of it. And he moved to the south of Spain to, you know, live off the the fruits of all that labor. So I thought, right, well, he is proof that I could turn this into something similar. I could, you know, change my lifestyle and, um, yeah, there's there's something to it. So he left, and then I was just left on my own because we sort of lost contact, um, but I just started reading into it. Started researching.

Um, and the name The Intrepid Guide was something that was spawned from the fact that my family and friends thought I was so fearless and adventurous, you know, for for moving abroad in the first place, so that's the meaning of intrepid. Um, and I see myself and they saw me as being almost like a guide when they would come to visit me, especially in Rome. And I would take take them around and I would show them, you know, the Colosseum and explain to them a bit of the history or the Trevi Fountain or wherever we would go like the common places. And I would share the information that I had learned from doing my own walking tours and reading about it and hearing about it from the locals and all this sort of stuff.

So I became I thought, you know, what if I called myself The Intrepid Guide? It sort of it's how I see myself and how others also see me and I thought that might be a nice name for a blog. So I sort of seek to do that with my audience really. I I take them along on my adventures and, you know, I guide them and I give them information about the place. So yeah, I find a lot of enjoyment doing that. I love learning about places and I love sharing it. So that's pretty much it.

Um, but yeah, I think my first blog post was after the trip that I did when I went to Brugge. I came back and I wrote about Brugge. And then I thought, 'Oh, well that's actually interesting because, you know, they speak Flemish Dutch there. How is that different from standard Dutch?' So then I wrote a post about that. You know, what language should you speak when you go to Brugge? Um, you know, and French as well. Um, so that was sort of like an idea for another blog post. So it sort of depending on the place that I visit, there will always be something interesting linguistically that's happening there. Um, so yeah, I just sort of went went yeah, via the destination. The destination would sort of provide me with inspiration for language related posts.

Um, but now I, um, I make sure that I do travel phrase guides for each of the places that I visit. So, um, because of that I wanted to do a Dutch travel phrase guide, then I'm like, 'Well, I've got to do one for Flemish because there are some differences there.' Um, but yeah, I've got pretty much all the places that I've visited, I've got travel phrase guides. And then if I haven't been there, you know, I've met people through blogging, through these conferences and everything, that are from different places. So I'm working on that Swedish one now, and I met uh Terese at the at TravelCon earlier this year. Um, so I thought, you know, I'd love to help get her help to do this travel phrase guide for, um, for Swedish. Um, and yeah, that's sort of basically how it works. I include everyone, you know, I mention them in the post, uh and I'll link back to their website, and it's just sort of a nice exchange because it's sort of, you know, when I do these travel phrase guides, I always get like a native speaker to help me with it.

Um, and it's sort of it's not just about me, it's about, you know, the community behind it and languages and connecting people and using foreign languages to connect with other people. So I think it's it's a nice story. It's a nice experience to sort of hear from a native speaker about their language and like, 'Oh, I say it this way, but, you know, standard, you know, in the standard language we would, you know, you should say it this way.' And then I sort of get, you know, a bit of the tidbits, you know, the lesser known facts, uh, that you may not get in in other books or whatever. And I try and keep them like really brief as well. So you're not like, you know, there's not a section on how to, you know, on pickup lines, for example, like you'll get a a travel phrase guide and it'll have like a all these sections that I probably don't even need. Like, you know, what are pickup lines and and all this sort of thing. I just I just try and use like, yeah, have the basics, you know, how to get around, pricing, numbers, how to introduce yourself, days of the week, um, and then if that is interesting to, you know, my audience or whoever, then they might take the next step and they might they might want to pursue the language more seriously. But the idea with these guides is to sort of at least, you know, get your head around the pleasantries because that goes a long way when you're traveling. You know, if you're showing the locals that you're trying to make an effort, you don't need to be fluent, but if you make an effort then you'll you're going to get a better reaction I think and a nicer experience there too. And it's just a, you know, a sign of respect as well. So it's it's an education piece I guess. Um, so every blog post that I write about a place, I'll always link to the travel phrase guide that I've done for it.

Um, so I guess my first experience with that was when I went overseas for the first time, when I left Australia and I traveled with a friend who was also from Italian heritage. Both of us who were just in love with Italy. Um, we wanted to go and just see, you know, uh, the statue of David and just see all the Renaissance art that we had sort of loved and admired when we were studying at uni. Um, and during that experience like I had very limited Italian. It was basically phrasebook Italian. And I had my phrasebooks with me, but the problem was is that I never took them with me because they were heavy, they were bulky. And in the heat of the moment, like, you don't have time to flick through a book. Um, because there there's so much there, you know? So I thought, 'Well, if I create something,' well, before I go into that, I should say that I regretted not knowing more, that I could interact more because we were traveling a lot in the south of Italy, um, and, you know, English isn't as widely spoken. And, you know, it was unfair of me to expect them to. Um, but I just I like we were saying before, like I like talking to people and, you know, having a little bit of banter and I don't know, I just I felt like I could have made that trip better if I had included the language aspect to it.

So that was the trip that really sort of set the way for me wanting to learn Italian seriously. So I went back to Australia after those couple of weeks there. Um and I'm like, 'Right, I'm going to do this seriously.' So that's when the whole, yeah, snowball effect happened. Um, and just before I moved to Italy, I was going to class three nights a week. One of those was a one to one. Um, I was going and seeing every movie at the Italian film festival, I was eating at Italian restaurants just so I could hear the, you know, the waitresses and the pizza makers speak Italian to each other.

Um, so yeah, I guess it was just my own experience that I realized that hey, there's something to this. And that's basically why I wanted to have language as part of the blog. And it's also something different. I'm very conscious that I don't want to be the same as other travel bloggers. Um, I do compare myself just just in terms of growth and see what they're doing. But I know that they're on a different path, and I don't want to be the same like, you know, I want to have my own my own niche, I guess. I mean, it's hard to define what that is exactly. And it's constantly evolving for me at least. But I know that language and travel is it's what my passion is personally and if I'm focusing on what my passion is, then I can't go wrong, sort of a thing.

Um, so like, you know, you got like your language learning apps and they're adding more and more languages to these, like, you know, Duolingo and Memrise and stuff like that. And they're really entertaining. Um, but they don't necessarily explain all the grammar very well. So if you're using if you want to learn the language just for travel purposes, then I would definitely seek out, you know, uh, courses that are available, um, like definitely, um, I know that uh the French Institute, they have courses specifically for people that are going to travel to France or French speaking nations. Um, I don't know how it would be for Indonesian. Again, like there's even with Norwegian now, like there's kind of limited material. Um when I was doing Afrikaans, it was it was even more limited. Uh, so it also depends on how popular that language is.

Um, but yeah, travel phrase guides are a good place to start. That's what I started with, and that's how I became more and more interested in the language. That's more from a functional perspective. Um, but YouTube channels now, there are so many good ones that are really helpful in terms of like getting the pronunciation and hearing from local speakers how to, you know, introduce yourself or ask how much things are. I think YouTube is probably a really great resource and it's free as well, which is, Yeah. a bonus.

Um, but yeah, I think it's it's it also depends on what your focus is, how much do you want to know, what do you want to be able to say, and then, uh, spreading that across different resources. So apps, YouTube videos, if there is a school that is offering a course specifically for travelers, um, travel phrase guides like mine,

If you can say hi to the to the, you know, the the pizza maker, like you said before. If you can say hi to him in Italian and just ask how he is, even if you don't know anything else and you're a big question mark when you when he answers back, well, you just made his day like a little bit better because you took the initiative. And because he's now happy and smiling, well, most people anyway are very happy, uh, that you speak their language or even try to, uh, your day's suddenly better.

So I think my, my, I would say, yeah, focus on what's really important and use something like flashcards. Uh, I wouldn't use like big course books like teach yourself or those kind of things because they they're not designed for that necessarily. They might have some of the phrases. I know Pimsleur, for instance, focuses a lot on like travel phrases. So maybe you can use that, but that's super expensive unless you can find it in your local library.

Um, but yeah, using something quick and fun, like a 15, 20 minutes a day or I didn't even know there was courses specifically for travelers. That's that's pretty amazing actually.

But what are some of the what are some of the things you've learned about traveling and we can get to language learning in a second. What are some of the things that have maybe not changed the way you travel, but what are some ah-ha moments about traveling that you've used to sort of enhance your travels or, you know, as you've done more and more and you've written about it. I guess that when you reflect on what you do, you you always thinking about what could have been done differently or with different ways.

Are there anything that comes to mind in terms of that people can maybe use for their travels? Because uh obviously a lot of people like to travel and when you get that chance to go somewhere, it's usually not for a very long time, and you probably can't go back quickly after for most people. So, so how do how do people maximize? Do you have any tips and tricks that you've gained over the the last years?

Um, but I definitely feel like it it's one of the nice things to do is if you're in a place to maybe go back to the same restaurant a couple of times because the wait staff and the people that work there, they'll recognize you. Um, and I think if they speak a different language then it sort of opens you up to having conversations with them. They'll be more interested in you because they have seen you a couple of times. They'll be more inquisitive to find out your story, where you're from.

Um, but yeah, I feel like that's nice. That's definitely something that you would do in Italy, I feel. Um, if you're staying in Italy, you go back to the same cafe every day, uh, to to the same bar, I should say, which is where they sell coffee. Um, and they will recognize you and they'll be a bit more inquisitive and they'll recognize you and they'll smile like, 'Oh, you know, you're here again.' And I don't know, I think that's I mean, I've learned lots of these things from Italy, but again, I don't know if that's the same everywhere.

Um, but if you want that connection with people, um, I think that's one way that you could do it, uh, especially like, instead of having like breakfast at your hotel, but yeah, to go out, um, get a recommendation from the hotel by any means, or wherever you're staying, but maybe go to that place a few times while you're there. Um, and it's a nice way to meet the locals and then any recommendations that they have and any sort of, you know, uh, conversations that you have that you you never know where they're going to lead. You never know like, you could have some crazy distant connection with someone back in your home country. Um, it it it's just a small world at times. If you if you ask around and you talk about certain things and you find out that they're they know someone, so, who used to be your neighbor or I don't know, like anything is possible really.

Um, so I think that's nice. I think it's a nice way to to get to know a place a bit different a bit better, um, by having those yeah, your your usual hangouts. I mean you might be any there for a couple of days, but if you maybe go back to the same place a couple of times, it can become your local while you're there. You can feel a bit more like a local.

And I think that's a good that's a really good tip. Like don't buy the cause now a lot of people when they look at trips to, let's say, warm countries in the winter, they look at Turkey or Italy or Spain even. And they look at all these big resorts with like all inclusive. And I just think it's a very it's a shame to miss that opportunity to go out and explore local places for breakfast or dinner or lunch or whatever.

And the thing is the hotel restaurant is still going to be there. So if you don't get out or you can't be asked to go out one day, you can just probably buy it for that one time. You know, bill it to your room or whatever. Um, so just just use any opportunity to get out. I think it's a it's a great tip that a lot of people say they don't do because they're like, 'Oh, all inclusive.' I can eat all I want.

I don't know why I hesitated for so long to get on board the tutoring wagon, as it were, and start to get regular online tutoring. Cause obviously the internet has enabled a connectivity that we've never had before. So when I started to have tutoring lessons in Russian, everything changed. Like, I improved so quickly, and I went from not being able to say a full sentence probably, to actually having one hour long conversations with my tutor. Okay, they were very basic conversations, they were very, you know, she was very patient, and it was very slow. But it all took place on Italki, because they have the biggest selection of tutors. They have great offers where you can like, for instance now, if you go and have a lesson, if you use my link, actualfluency.com/italki, you get a $10 free credit. And you can get many tutoring lessons there for less than $10 an hour. So you're essentially just getting a free lesson.

Um, the other part is just it's so convenient. You go in, you use the calendar on the side to pick a time that's good for your time zone, and it shows when your teacher is available. And then Italki just does the rest. It sends out the reminders for you, and it takes care of the payment as well, so you don't get scammed by some, you know, questionable teachers out there in the internet. I had a lot of tutoring lessons, and if anyone of you've tried learning Russian, you know that you definitely need it.

Um, but it wasn't until way later that I realized just how powerful these tutoring lessons were. And now I totally 100% recommend it. Like, if you can't do any other work in a language, if you if you find textbooks boring, or if you find any other method like not your cup of tea, there's nothing that beats the the speed of which you learn from a personal one-on-one tutor. And you can find thousands of them on Italki. That's I T A L K I. And like I said, you can get a free $10 credit if you use my link, actualfluency.com/italki. And now let's get back to the episode.

So it's it's a very short interaction, but it's it's a bit of fun that sort of, you know, obviously puts them in a better mood and changes their perspective a little bit. Maybe brightens their day, but it also, you know, it helps me because then I'm like, 'Okay, this is how I should pronounce it.' Um, but they also say this. So I've obviously learned something at the same time.

And then that trend will basically follow me throughout my entire trip. So if I need to get a taxi, or if I'm buying a train ticket, or whatever, you know, I will aim to say it in the language, and then I'll ask for feedback if I've said it correctly.

Um, yeah, so that's just something that I do because it corrects me because I may have like seen the phonetic pronunciation somewhere, or I've watched it on YouTube, but I'm still not pronouncing it correctly. Um, and I will just ask on the ground, am I right or am I wrong? And correct me. And then if I've And if I've given me like a whole bunch of other phrase, like, 'Oh, can you write that down?' And they're like, 'Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure.' They'll grab a pencil and, you know, they'll write it down and then I'll give it to me. Um, but yeah, that's, yeah, that's just something that I like to do, but it may not be for everyone.

And I would ask them all the time with the wait staff and they would just get really happy and they would find it very funny that this Danish guy was trying to pronounce, you know, the Hungarian. It's like, 'No, we don't say it like that, and you say it like this.' And 'cause you can get very creative with those languages, you know, the the what do you call them? The agglutinative languages. They can you can be very flexible with how you say things. And there's typically only one right way, but if you say it wrong, they will understand it and give a little laugh and say, 'Yeah, I know what you mean, but.'

I mean, you need to have you can't have a lot of personal pride, I feel like, because you are basically an idiot in the language. So if you try to take it too seriously and think that you're going to sound like a native speaker after reading a couple of sentences in a phrasebook, then you're going to be set up for disappointment. But if you go in and say just, 'Okay, I'm just going to come in, guns blazing, and say what I think I can say.' And if the people behind the counter starts laughing at me, I'll laugh with them, you know, because that's part of the experience.

And obviously their day is much much better now because it's not just, you know, angry people coming in and and swearing at them, it's it's actually a difference, you know, it's a different kind of world. And I came to the same restaurant, like they had a lunch offer every day. So I came almost every lunch to this place. And after a while, you just they just kind of know you. And that's I think that's also funny, cause, uh, you can build that relationship that you talked about. And and I I don't know what my reputation was around that place, if I wasn't there, but it would be like the the foreigner, I guess, or something like that. That could be the the the the name, the code name.

But it shows and and I didn't know much in Hungarian, I'll be honest. I didn't know much at all. I hadn't studied that much. But the experiences were just amazing. The rewards are great, I feel like. And that's getting more out of language learning and and traveling.

And you have the what's that guide book called? The um, I forgot. The the Global one that has like Lonely Planet. Yeah, that's the one, exactly. I I saw a funny cartoon from H.P. Fred where it had it was called something like Lonely Planet, uh, Undiscovered Secrets or something. But because everyone had the guide, there was like a massive group of people there.

So I just so I just wanted your thoughts on that because personally, I think when I go to a new place, I think my first objective is to see the standard sites, to see what are they famous for? Because then I can build my own opinions on that. I think it's a little bit arrogant to say, 'Oh, yeah, when I go to Rome, I'm not going to see the Colosseum because there's so many undiscovered treasures of Italy or whatever.' You know, do you know what I'm trying to get at here? It's

Um, you know, I hear people like that they don't like it breaks my heart when people say, 'Oh, I didn't like Rome, and I prefer Florence or Venice or whatever.' Like, it breaks my heart, you know, like, Rome is my second home through and through after Australia. And I'm like, 'Well, you know, first of all, how long did you stay there? Where did you go? Where did you eat?' Like, 'Oh, you know, I didn't like the pizza in Rome or I didn't like the gelato in Rome.' I'm like, 'Yeah, but where did you go?'

Um, like it's first-time visitors specifically. But how do you know if you're going there the first time? What what's the most reliable source? Is it is it the the Lonely Planet or is it the at the travel blogs like The Intrepid Guide or Yeah, you can't really Yeah, you can't really go wrong when you're getting recommendations of where to go for the first time because you'll have your own idea of what you want to see. That's the reason why you're going there usually. You're going there because there are certain things that you want to see. And then I think it is nice to weave in a few of the places that are less spoken about. So different churches that have a like a really interesting history that aren't exactly on the tourist track.

Um, uh, and I feel like if you're going back there for the second time, that's when you want to see the places that no one has really heard of. And that's where these books come in handy. But you know, like travel bloggers and these uh travel guides, you know, the onus is sort of, you know, maybe they're over promoting a place where they have like over tourism and these places don't have the same charm as what they used to.

Um, so it's it's there are positives and negatives that I can both see. It's like, 'Okay, get people out of the Colosseum and show them what what, you know, the rest of Rome is about.' Like, Yeah. Like, there's just so much else happening in Rome other than the Colosseum and the Vatican, and the Trevi Fountain, and the Pantheon. But it's a balance always, of course.

So if I use like Spain as an example, I was, uh, in the Costa Brava region of Spain, which is the north, um, eastern corner of Spain. Uh, we were in, oh, I can't remember the exact name of the town, but basically they were pretty upset, you know, with Airbnb sort of taking over the city, and that locals basically didn't have a place to stay, and it was just all the tourists living in these Airbnbs. So you have to think about it from that perspective, if the town is so small that it can't support all this in this tourist. And the locals who live there all year round don't have anywhere to live, or the the prices are inflated for accommodation so much, they can't afford to live there anymore, then that's like another issue. So,

But then I guess I have a bit of a double standard here because I'd like to rent the cheap Airbnbs in city centers, but I also want cheap rent if I want to live in London or somewhere else. Uh, but I don't know what the answer could be to that. I I kind of like what Berlin is doing, they have, uh, rent caps. Like the, uh, landlords can't raise the rent more than inflation every year or whatever the the fixed percentage is. So there's no there's no wild west there.

But then the problem is that when people come as foreigners, they are usually subletting anyway. So there that price might be different anyway and it can't be government by the the and then in New York, they make it illegal to do Airbnbs from from certain buildings and stuff. And obviously there's a lot of wild west going on there. Similar to how Uber is is changing the taxi world as well. But I don't know what the solution is to that.

I I kind of like what Airbnb myself. Really, uh, preferred in many cases over hotels just because having your own place is so much better than just a little room somewhere, I feel like, and cheaper in many cases.

But then you you see people working there. They're paid, you know, €600 a month for a full-time job. And wow. And you go there. So, so in a sense, a tourist in Budapest is contributing to the problem, but also solving the problem because if there weren't any tourists in Budapest, how many people would be unemployed for instance? That would be a massive problem.

Uh, so it's it's a massive issue that I'm not even sure how to even begin to fix because obviously tourists are both stimulating the economy, but they're also breaking it in a way by buying like holiday flats or even just renting on Airbnb, because it's better for the landlords to earn, you know, €40 a a day rather than €300 a month, uh, renting out their Budapest apartments.

So, yeah, I don't know. I guess the the the takeaway is to just be in general just be respectful and, you know, be generous, I would say as well. Like, if you get a good service, you know, throw in a good tip. If the culture allows it, of course. Yeah. That would be my recommendation. But that kind of goes without saying you should be respectful when you're abroad.

Um, so they get hundreds of thousands, if not maybe just over a million or something, I'm not exactly sure, but like way more tourists than there are locals that live in this tiny village. Right. The cruise ships come through the fjord and all these tourists to go on this train ride. Um, but they don't usually stay in Flåm. They're with they're there for a day, you know, with the cruise ship. They'll come and go. But I'm just thinking how like, in her house, overlooks the fjord, and she sees the cruise ships go in and out. I'm like, I don't know how I would feel as a local seeing that offload of all these tourists, and how they feel. Like, it it's not I can't imagine it being nice.

Yeah. But it turns out like in a recent, I don't know if it was a report or just the news, but they said that they're not going to do it anymore because people don't spend anything there. Yeah. And that might have been Norway as well, actually. They might have given an example of Norway where they paid it might even be the same town, who knows, but there was some example of where the city was paying the cruise companies quite a lot to dock there. But it turns out the average spend for each tourist was tiny. It was like, uh, you know, uh, less than £20. So it wasn't even worth it for the city, because they obviously have to spend a lot of money on actually cleaning up and like managing this this, uh, connection, and and then paying for it in the first place.

Yeah. And I think that, yeah, I don't like the whole cruise idea. I I like the idea of being on a a ship disconnected from everywhere for a a little while. I think that's what how I would write a book. Just being completely disconnected, uh, just on the seas, that would be nice.

But a lot of these cruises are just like kind of a, I don't even what to call it. It's like an all inclusive experience, but it's it's so shallow in a way. Because you spend most of the time on a ship that has nothing. It's just a restaurant and, you know, some entertainment. And you kind of you're spending a lot of time doing nothing. It seems you're waiting to do something. And then you finally get to an interesting place, like a port, and you're told, 'Well, you have four hours to see the city.' Well, okay. What are you going to see in four hours? You also need to eat and stuff. Uh, and and you just come in in like such huge numbers that if I was living in that little Norwegian town, I would probably move because that must be so annoying. Like 700 people docking off and just filling up the town square. You know. Must be horrible horrible in a way.

Um, if I'm going to be on a boat, I'd rather be on, I don't know, something where it's emphasis is on where you stop as opposed to the on board entertainment like these theatrical shows and swimming pools and casinos and whatever else. I would rather just prefer the ship is a means of getting me from one place to the next.

Um, but what was it I was thinking about that, oh yeah, the conferences, of course. I I just wanted to throw that in there as well since that's where we met last year in October in Reykjavik, or near Reykjavik, anyway. Yeah. And so are you planning to go on any other language conferences next year, 2019? And if so, what why?

Uh, Bratislava, the polyglot gathering, which I haven't been to, but I hear great things about, that goes over four days, I believe. That's more manageable, so maybe, um, that's something that I can squeeze in hopefully, if it's, you know, over a weekend then I can just take two days off work, it makes it a bit easier. Yeah.

Um, But yeah, other than that, there is also the language influence summit, which is a new one that's happening in Berlin. I've got tickets to that, so I'll be there. Um, and yeah, apart from that, I haven't really got anything else on my radar in terms of language meetups and conferences.

Um, but yeah, highly recommend Bratislava. I think it's one of the most informal conferences there is. And I I've had the best experiences at those because having a extra days means that you can do other things as well. And you won't feel so guilty by, let's say, skipping some of the things, or maybe even taking half a day to do something else, or just going with your friends for a for lunch for hours, you you won't worry about it because there's four days of events. And obviously, if you come a day before and leave a day earlier, you've got a lot of days to like plan it, um, So for me, that's it's probably the best event, uh, generally. I don't really watch too many talks. I I just watch them online at some point if I find any interesting ones. But for gathering in terms of the social aspect, I think that's the best one.

Also the common food, I think meeting over the lunch and dinner is is a fantastic way to meet people.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Actual Fluency Podcast. I really appreciate having you here today. Just before you leave, I just want to give a quick shout out to today's sponsor, which is Italki. Italki is a tutoring platform where you can find affordable tutors from every language in the world, pretty much. So get started today and get a free $10 credit when you book your first lesson. If you go to actualfluency.com/italki, and that's spelled I T A L K I. So give it a go and feel how tutoring can really boost and enhance your language learning.