Daniel Krasa: Language Vagabonding

Season two, episode 22, Daniel Krasa, learner profiles four. This is the Actual Fluency Podcast, helping you become a better language learner by providing motivating weekly inspiration, as well as top tips and tricks from expert guests. And now, your host, Kris Broholm.

All right, everyone, I'm back with another episode of the Actual Fluency Podcast. And my guest today is a published author of phrasebooks, dictionaries, and language learning materials. And he's also a frequent traveler. So, please welcome Mr. Daniel Krasa to the show.

Hello. Hello. Nice to be with you.

Nice to have you here and uh this is, this interview's obviously been uh a long time coming since the uh Berlin Polyglot Gathering where I met you and uh was completely amazed by your uh like language ability. So, thank you for taking the time to talk to us today.

Thank you for having me with you.

Fantastic. All right, so, the first question on everyone's mind surely must be, how on earth did you get into the world of language learning in the first place?

Um I don't know, I was, I think I was always kind of uh really interested in languages from the very start. And um, I grew up in a purely German speaking uh surrounding and family. Nevertheless, my grandparents used to speak some other languages, Hungarian and Czech. Um, they didn't speak any of these with me, but I was still exposed to these languages. And um at a very early age I kind of uh realized, because my family comes from both Austria and from the south of Germany, and I realized that there were different dialects being used in our family and um, I think that might have given me some, you know, some some exposure to simply realizing that there are different ways of saying things, different ways of pronouncing words and so on.

Right. It's a springboard. I think that's the thing.

It, it is. It is. Yeah, yeah.

Amazing. And then you decided at at at your late teens that that you wanted to essentially live this lifestyle and and then how did you did you find pick a major uh from languages and uh had a career in mind or did you just kinda go with it?

Um, not, not really. It was interesting that the languages, although they were always my main hobby and interest, I always regarded them as something additional to some other things. So, when I finished my high school and when I, you know, when I started to think about what I wanted to be, I first of all had in mind to, to become a diplomat and then I thought I would be, you know, going to international business. And um, I always regarded these languages, it's something that could help me to fulfill an international uh profession. But I never regarded the languages as such as um, you know, the thing I would work with.

And of course, most people will probably know you, or maybe not directly, but they will definitely know the Assimil series, which you've been contributing to, and as a product, how did you get involved with that? Because that must've been a a huge uh task compared to a phrasebook.

Right. So, the phrasebooks um, that I wrote and and and others in the series, obviously, uh, were at a certain time translated into, into French. And uh, I was in Paris one day and went to a bookshop and I saw these and I thought, wow, this is uh, interesting because the format looks exactly like the ones I was used to in in in in Germany. So, I looked into them and I found out that it was just a translation into French. So, um, since I was, you know, speaking French at quite a good level, I thought, okay, I want to translate my own books into French, if ever they decide to translate mine. Now, think of a book like uh, Algerian French, uh, Algerian Arabic in French. That would definitely be more uh, successful than in Germany, obvious for obvious reasons. So, I contacted um, Assimil and I asked them whether I could translate some of my books into French and they said, yes.

Wow. That's pretty exciting uh to uh, to have, I mean, I guess that was part of a a change for Assimil because previously only been in French as far as I know and, or maybe they went to English second and then French, uh, sorry, German.

No, no, they um, actually they started to, to do a lot of work in in in other languages as well and they started to um, publish in German about 40 years ago. So, they had a lot of, a lot of these books in in uh, German but uh, also in Italian, in Spanish, in in other languages, Russian, Turkish, English, obviously. Yes.

Yeah, the English ones are becoming very popular because everyone knows English in in some capacity, it seems.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Fantastic. So that's uh, also interesting for people out there who want to know how to make a career out of language. You know, if you start with a tiny little project somewhere, suddenly that leads to another one and another one and then suddenly you get the call from from Assimil or whatever, you know, so.

Exactly. And I think if if the drive is to work with languages, you should start with whatever project you have, even if it sounds ridiculous in terms of uh, income and money, if it's something that you're really interested in, go for it because this is going to open up doors and it's just, you know, it's just gonna lead you somewhere else.

Exactly. It's like a you're putting your name out there with a book and or project. And Right. You've seen, you see that in every single category where somebody's, you know, they you have to start small. You can't just become a a full-time overnight.

Exactly. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's sometimes it it might be depressing if you uh uh look uh what kind of things you had you find about all different languages and you would say, "Oh, there's already so much about it. So why should I publish something?" No, if you have a good idea, then go for it. Just do it and and and, you know, try to publish it. Even if you don't find a publisher, I mean, there's so many um possibilities now on the net in in terms of ebooks and and other stuff where you can actually publish your own thing and and see how um the the reaction is gonna be.

Yeah, exactly. Amazon is, you know, anyone can publish on Amazon. So,

Exactly.

Just need the the text, which to be fair is the hard bit anyway. So,

It is. Yes.

It makes sense. Right. The book. So, going back to uh the learning uh aspects, how have you, how did you feel the difference between, or should I say, how, how did the method or the approach to language learning change from when you were, let's say, in your teens to to now later when you're learning languages as an adult?

You mean besides the effect of alcohol on my brain ever since?

Right. Well, it could make you more creative, I suppose. But yeah, just in general, you know, what what kind of, I guess it's a question of development, you know, how how have you developed as a learner over the years?

Right. I mean, I would I would think that everybody uh believes that the younger you are, the easier it is to learn. I'm 39 right now. And um, for some reason, it's it's true because when you, when you're young, you just, you you just absorb things. You just pick them up and you hardly forget things. And there are certain languages, um, that I learned at an early stage that are for some reasons are just there. They, they don't disappear. I mean, I've um, I've lived in Brazil when I was 22, I think. And um, Portuguese never, you know, never really, although I'm, I'm hardly speaking Portuguese these days, but I never um, lost it and it's, it's there. And when I meet someone speaking Portuguese, I could just, you know, instantly get back into it. And I believe it is because I learned it at an at an early stage and I was completely uh, you know, in in a in a Portuguese speaking surrounding.

Yeah, definitely. And I guess the, what, what also I often say is that people who come into this and listen to an episode or they just find out about this whole polyglot, the thing that you can actually be a learner as a hobby, which for many school children seems a little bit uh, dystopia, but um, they've, they, they ask like, what is the, what is the secret? You know, what is the method that I need to use to do this? And everyone says, or at least anyone who's, who's done it for more than two months, says that it's, you know, it's just spending the time and working on it. You know, there's no magic recipe or anything. But you can, of course, improve the methods that suit you better, but I think what you said, there is no secret is worth repeating because there is truly no secret. I've, I've interviewed 70 people and I haven't found it yet. So, you know, if it's out there, it's really well hidden.

Yeah, I'm, you know, for me, the main thing, first of all, is to really fall in love with the language you want to to learn. I mean, you have to, you you you have to find the passion for that particular language. And we have to say, like, besides the languages that you have, you have to learn in school, uh, most of the languages you would choose during your lifetime are languages that you have a certain connection with, you know, either because you want to live there or because you need you need them for your job or whatever. But each and every language, um, gives you an insight into a culture, into a country or several countries. So, yeah, try to find what's, what's interesting in that particular culture or country or about the people, about the mentality. And just, you know, just, just try to, to, to, see it as a passion, try to see it as a love affair. And then it will be much easier than just looking at it as a task, as something you have to fulfill, something you have to do because, um, that's an obligation and we don't want to have obligations.

Exactly. And um, yeah, for me, the magic about language learning, um, is that with each and every language, like I said, um, you know, you should find out what's brilliant about the mentality of the people, about the culture, about the country. So, whenever you learn a new language, you somehow pick up a new personality. You somehow pick up something new.

Right. I, I don't remember who said it, um, I think uh, Luca Lampariello told me that for every language he learns, he feels like he's living another life. So, he's like for for his uh, 12 or something, he feels like he's living 12 lives at once because so many doors open and so many, like, there's just the way to think, really, you know, you, you start to understand how other people think in different cultures. Exactly.

Exactly. And you could, you could say things in one language that would sound extremely strange in another language. You could address people in a different way. And it's um, yeah, that's, that's the fun about it. And that's what, but but having said that, um, what I also want to say is that language learning is not only about learning vocabulary, grammar and structure, syntax and so on, but it's, it's about observing how the locals um, you know, deal with each other, the way they speak, things they say that you wouldn't say in your own mother tongue, for example. So, there's much more about it. It's like a whole, each and every language is like a whole universe, like a new universe that you start to to to, uh, you know, to to to absorb and to learn about. So, yeah, how would you just do it in a couple of months? I mean, it's, it has to be a life, lifelong passion, as I would call it.

Right. And obviously, you've probably used every method there is, but what, what have sort of been, do you have any methods that you might have liked at some point or, let's say, approaches also so you can cover more, but, you know, when you're sitting down to learn a language, do you focus on the vocabulary? Do you focus on the, the syntax or the grammar or, like, how do you approach if I told you you had to learn a new language starting tomorrow?

Um, I would, although I'm working for Assimil and I work for other publishers, I, I would not say that there is one method that is the only one that works or the best one. No. Um, what I normally do is, I try to, to, to get myself a few language learning material, whatever, books and and CDs, um, in order to not only stick to one. Um, I, I really have a very hard time with following just one particular course because there's always some question that might pop up and I would say, "Oh, I actually want to be, you know, a step ahead and I want to learn about, whatever, the uh, I don't know, whatever cases and this and that." So, I try to get myself uh, decent material, which is normally two textbooks. I try to get uh, a grammar. I try to get um, at a very early stage, what I really love is to, to get some music in that particular language. So, I'm, I, I try to listen to the language, even if I don't understand a word, it's still, it's, it's, it's great. And I mean, we have, you know, just tune into YouTube or listen to online radios and so on. Just try to get an idea about about the language and listen to it as much as I can.

It's more efficient, yeah.

Yeah.

And what about learning multiple languages at once? Because we often inspired or maybe attracted to new languages and for instance, I'm in Hungary right now, so I'm learning Hungarian. But then you get your, like you said, you get attracted to some languages and you want to learn more at the same time, but is that is that wise? Have you been doing that?

Um, I've, yeah, of course, I've I've been doing it and I and I do it all the time because uh, you know, once you speak several languages, you always have to try to maintain the languages as as such as well. So, uh, you, you eventually end up uh reading uh newspapers in all sorts of languages at the same time and even if it comes to learning new languages, I, uh, I'm just too curious about so many languages. I couldn't just say, okay, now I for the next six months I'll uh, concentrate on Hungarian and I don't look at any other language. No, I wouldn't be able to, you know, I'm too, too passionate about uh, all sorts of languages.

Right. And if you have to have similar languages, make sure they're on very different levels to avoid interference as much as possible.

Exactly. Exactly. If you are at at several uh, with several languages at different levels, then uh, it might be okay. But it's all, it's it's, you know, it all depends on on training. I mean, you can really train. I remember when I, like I said, when I was living in Brazil, I was working for a an advertising agency and I um, I had to deal with a lot of Spanish speaking people at that time. And that was, uh, at the beginning, it was a real uh, headache because the languages are similar. So, I always, you know, mixed up the two languages and got confused. But after, you know, after a couple of weeks, after a couple of months, I, I just my brain figured out how to, to, to make the division between these two languages and then it was easier. And um, yeah, with learning it's the same thing, but it might be confusing at the beginning. Yeah.

Right. And what, what is your, what do you think about uh, all these flashcards, uh, Anki, Memrise, uh, these new basically software or, let's say, digitizing the old writing something on a piece of paper and then on the back write the solution or translation?

Um, I think it's great. I mean, I'm still kind of old school when it comes to this because I'm still writing down uh, words uh, with a pen on a piece of paper. But I, I believe it's fantastic if you use Anki and you use it on your smartphone and uh, you know, when you're on your way to the office in the morning and on the way back in the evening and you you have time to look at all the cards and you don't have to carry uh, books and and vocabulary uh, lists and whatsoever all the time. So, yeah, of course, it's, it's fantastic. I mean, there's so many great gadgets now. So many things you can, you can do and and I, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm really, I think it's really great to, to use these gadgets, especially for all this memory kind of uh, thing of learning vocabulary. But you shouldn't end there. You know, language, as I said, language is is something that is alive and you have to, you have to learn it also to use it and speak to people. And that's the main thing. I mean, you could uh, you could learn a, you know, 5,000 words in a language and then still not be able to utter a word when it comes to, you know, just ordering some food in a restaurant. Yeah. Exactly.

That's so true. Yeah, yeah. And, and a lot of people, I think, do fall into that trap and I did myself with Russian, where I learned uh, 1,000 words or something quite quickly, but I couldn't really convert that vocabulary into speaking because I just hadn't done that. So, I think that, uh, the opposite approach is actually a lot better where you learn some sentences, so you can see the pattern, you can observe the pattern and then you learn some vocabulary so you know what to fill in. Uh, rather than the other way around.

Definitely. Right. But I still think that this is the second step. I mean, there is, there is the saying, uh, what is more important, pronunciation or grammar? And obviously it is pronunciation. You could, you could speak a language and make a lot of uh, mistakes with grammar and still people would understand you. However, if you don't manage to, to, to pronounce words correctly, that's the main obstacle.

Yeah. And then they're harder on you in some parts of the world than in others, like in Hungary for instance, you get very weird looks if you don't pronounce the words correctly.

Exactly. Or try languages such as Thai or Vietnamese or Chinese. I mean, you might end up in jail just for having said something you really didn't intend to. Now, I'm joking. But, um, yeah, it's uh, pronunciation is very, very, very important.

So, how do we learn that to start up with when we, when we don't have any base in the language? Do we go out and find a tutor to start with, or do we find an an audio uh, material that has uh, a solid pronunciation trainer?

Well, audio material is great and it's probably for most people uh, the only uh, solution there is because they would not, I mean, even there it depends on the language you're learning. Uh, but it might not be very easy to find a Vietnamese tutor everywhere, you know. So, um, audio material is great for the drills. Nevertheless, um, you always listen to yourself and you would always think, either, okay, I'm saying it correctly or, you know, I don't get into it at all. But none of these two assumptions might be correct.

Right. And, and a good enough pronunciation or a good pronunciation? What should we aim for? What's your philosophy?

Um, you know, I think that's a, that's a personal uh, thing. Like you might, depending on the language you speak, you might end up speaking uh, a language without an accent and people might think you're you're local. And uh, in other languages, it simply doesn't work. Like I remember I um, you know, whenever I speak Russian, I would, I would just have to say one word and every Russian speaking person would, now he's a foreigner. And uh, I've been, I've been studying Russian for a long time and then it's, it's, you know, it's um, it's frustrating at some point. But, uh, it's because I would love to not be taken uh, for a foreigner when I speak. But that's just, you know, that's my ego. So, uh, obviously people understand what I'm saying. So, that's the most important thing and I think that is, uh, what it's all about. I mean, you should get your message across and you should, you should just be able to make yourself understood. That's, that's the main aim.

Right. And it's not not always easy.

It's not always easy. Exactly, exactly. That's the, that's the first step. Now, once you've achieved this, then you can work on it. But, um, you don't need to be a secret agent in in each and every language not to be recognized by the locals, you know. So, uh, yeah.

Sometimes it has an advantage, too. Because then they speak maybe slightly slower, maybe they pronounce it a little bit more.

It does. It does. And then it helps you out and you don't get crucified for any mistake because they think, oh, okay, he's foreign. So.

Exactly. And they're happy that you're trying as well. Probably even more happy than if they heard their perfect language.

Right. Right. So, there's, there's beauty in the impurity, anyway. Yeah, and in some languages, when it comes to exotic languages, like when I say exotic languages, I mean exotic languages for us Europeans because there's no such thing like exotic and non non-exotic. That's, that's so so colonial, in a way. It's terrible, actually, to say that. But, yeah, let's say if you speak, if you speak a language such as, um, you know, an Indian language, for instance, and you speak to people, it would be sometimes more difficult if you really speak, uh, you know, at a very high level and don't look Indian, uh, then if you just ask uh, where, where's the main station and people would look at you and say, "Oh, wow, he's a foreigner and he, you know, he manages to speak a little of our language." So, sometimes people don't understand you even though you speak perfectly. Almost. You know. So, um, yeah. Yeah, and I'm, I'm really looking forward to to next year as well.

The atmosphere was buzzing for sure. That's why I love about it. It's it's almost an extra with the Yeah. So, so motivational and inspirational. You just want to, I mean, I, I almost felt like during the gathering, I would just feel like, I should really go to my room and study a little bit. You really get that uh urge. But, um, but yeah, I, I always recommend it to anyone listening that this is really the event because it's so casual as well, isn't it?

It is. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a a a really formal setting with only talks and only, let's say, academic talks. It's uh No, and everybody is, everybody is welcome. I mean, if you, you know, there's no benchmark for speaking, whatever, amount of languages. I mean, if you're interested in languages, that's the place uh for you to be, you know.

Exactly. Berlin, the capital of the polyglot movement.

Exactly. Exactly. All right. Daniel, thank you so much for coming on and uh taking the time to share your story today and uh I, I hope to see you somewhere. Actually, you know, if you're in Vienna, I'm in Budapest. That's not too far. So, I might come, I might come visit you one day.

Great. Let's do it. Yeah, thank you, thank you so much for for your time and for your interest and um, yeah, I hope that it's gonna be helpful and interesting for some people out there. All right? All the best.

All right, thanks. Thank you. Bye. Bye. All right. Thank you for listening to the Actual Fluency Podcast.