Chuck Smith: Duolingo and The Polyglot Gathering

Season two, episode one with Chuck Smith talking about Poller Berlin and Duolingo. This is the actual fluency podcast helping you become a better language learner by providing motivating weekly inspiration, as well as top tips and tricks from expert guests. And now, your host, Chris Broholm.

Thank you.

How are you doing today?

I'm doing well. And yourself?

Fantastic. I couldn't be better actually. Um, recovering from a cold and that's always a good feeling when you feel it's on the way out. But uh before you move any further, can you uh just uh let us know what's been going on since last time and uh how are you looking forward to the next Poller Gathering?

So, it's exciting the Poller Gathering's coming up on May 1st through the 4th, and what's the exciting part about it right now is that we're trying to uh run raise funds to hire a professional film team to come from a film school in Berlin to um shoot all the lectures. So, I mean if you watch the coverage from last year, you can notice that the slides can be quite difficult to read at times and so we want to really make sure everything's clear and crisp and also the we want to raise the sound quality a lot as well.

Right. Yeah, I've seen I've I've seen the uh the contribution and I've also uh added a bit of my own and I can only fully I mean I can fully recommend people do it because what I've heard from people last year who were not at the gathering, they've seen some of these videos on YouTube of some of the talks, and why there have been enjoyable to watch and uh you know, as as far as quality goes, they were watchable. But, you know, it is a small flip cam in the corner of the the lecturing hall. It's not exactly uh high quality, but if you get this team in, you know, you're going to get amazing quality talks for, you know, you can watch them over and over again, you can watch it after, and if you can't make it to the gathering itself, that's a perfect opportunity. So, um do you want to give people the uh the address right off the bat, so they don't forget it?

Uh it's best to just go to Indiegogo.com and then search for Poller Gathering.

Perfect.

Be the easiest way to find it.

And there are some bonuses there for people to if they contribute, they get some language learning materials and products, so I can uh fully recommend that.

Absolutely. We've got amazing deals from Transparent Language, from Benny Lewis, Fluent in 3 Months and Pod 101.

Fantastic. Yeah, so I I totally recommend people go there and if uh if you didn't get that link, I'll put it in the show notes as well, so people can check that out uh for later easy review. But let's talk about the gathering itself. If you we reflected on it uh earlier in the year, but what kind of what will be different this year compared to the one last year?

Well this year we have uh more space. Well, also there'll be more people there. So, last year we had a little over 200 people and this year we'll have 320 people. And um we'll also have we had one very large room last year and this year we'll have two very large rooms. So we'll be able to fit a lot more people in to watch uh even more content than we had last year. So, another thing that's exciting with the filming is that with the three parallel sessions going out at the same time, even if you're attending, you can't see everything. So, it's a way to also see the the stuff in the other room that you missed.

Right. And I'll just say that I was there and I was living at a place it was where it was taking place. And even then, I still missed about, I would say, more than half of the talks. One, because there were some talks going on at once, but also because you just you just socializing. You know, you're caught up at lunch, you meet some really interesting people, you're talking in a in a language you might not be, you know, have tons of opportunities to practice. And suddenly, the time is just flying away. So, having all the videos for later would be a a huge, huge benefit for for everyone, I believe.

Yes, and we even um have an extra room this year that we hope to just set aside for um just people to chat there. So, you don't have to just sit in the foyer outside the the main hall.

It was nice though.

Yeah, we'd like to have more space for just people to just to get to know each other.

Right.

Because um one thing I think is I like a lot of um I find a lot of conferences, the most value you can get is from the just the coffee breaks, or just breaks in between um talks. So, we want to really help people connect on that level as well.

Yeah, that's what I can totally echo that and I think the gathering was one of the best examples, because people were just socializing all the time. And if even in the bar or in the lunchroom, or in the foyer, as you were saying, and some people even went out. And that was really the strength of the gathering, and I think that's the the biggest benefit of such a conference is that you allow so much social time, whereas, you know, other conferences might be more packed in terms of talks. I know for a fact that the, you know, the conference, the Poller Conferences is is only two days and it's basically full of talks, so there's very limited time for socializing. But you you've got that covered in in Berlin.

Yeah, one thing I'm really excited about this year, too, is that we're getting Yomo to come and perform for us and he will be singing in 25 languages in his concert.

Wow, that's pretty incredible.

He used to have the um Guinness Book of World Records for most languages sung at a concert.

That's really uh apt, right, for the uh occasion.

That's what we thought as well.

It's fantastic. And and we'll see the return of all the popular uh events and, you know, the the tea room and the crocodile rule and uh all the there'll be nothing taken out, I I hope.

That's right. And we'll also have the book fair this year.

Right.

Where people can um um sell their say they have their they've written a book, they can sell their book. And if they don't need the table to be branded, we even provide that space for indies for free.

And that's perfect, I I think, because a lot of time people have written these language learning books, it's not a huge market, you know, if you're just writing about, I don't know, uh Korean vowels or something, you know, that's pretty niche. And if you've self-published it or something, you know, having that kind of a a space, I think, is is a good initiative and it can I I I suspect there'll be a nice sort of talk in that room as well, you know, what, oh, did you read that, what did you think? And not just for the authors, but also for the people who enjoy to read about the literature and the languages.

Right. And our program is looking stellar this year as well. There's different tracks of learning languages and linguistics, life as a polyglot, practical language courses and workshops, and uh the evening program, which I've already talked a bit about.

Right.

And so it's uh and that's all on pollerberlin.com. Just click on the program.

And register soon, right? Because there's uh what not that many seats left, last time I checked.

Um we're closing it very soon. I'm not sure if we'll even have seats available when you uh publish this.

Oh no. I better I better publish this quickly then.

Yes.

No, but uh seriously, people, if you have the opportunity, I highly recommend it. And when I went last year, I haven't denied the fact that it was a truly life-changing experience. Uh just because you're among so many great learners and it's so inspirational to see and talk to people who've just learned so many languages and and so many of them are so humble beings as well and it it really it it gives meaning to all these hours that we put in at the desk.

Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm looking at the participants list now, and I see we have 322 participants from 50 countries.

Right. And you said you had 320 spaces?

Yes, but we do have a waiting list.

Right. So people can sign up for the waiting list. Are those 320 confirmed or are they just registered and awaiting payment?

They're registered and awaiting payment.

Right. So some of them will confirm obviously. Right. Some of them might have might not participate anyway.

Right. And always at the last minute people will um drop out too. It's just other personal concerns or things like that.

Of course. But anyway, people go to pollerberlin.com and register immediately, actually. And there's a funny story, I I mentioned this last year as well, but you did the registration for the first one kind of uh in a closed group first. It was like in a, you know, you're kind of spreading it out from the inside. And then after, I don't know, 50, 100 people had signed up, or maybe even more, you send it out to the to the rest of the world to see. And I didn't know anyone in the circle at that time. So, when I saw the Facebook post, I was like, whoa, what is this? And I just signed up immediately. I remember I didn't even check my calendar, I didn't even, you know, check my bank account. I just said, I want to join this. And I just registered. And like three days later, it was sold out. So, you know, it's it's important. And I think the people who have been there can definitely confirm that that's, you know, it's such an amazing experience that if you have the chance, and I think some people listening to this will have the chance, go take that chance, because it's really uh fascinating.

And obviously, if you if you don't have the chance, then if you support our Indiegogo campaign, then you can watch all the videos online for free.

Right.

Supporting our campaign would be useful.

Yeah, exactly. And you get a lot out of supporting and and also the fact that, you know, it's it's a lot of diverse topics. I really like you said before, I really enjoyed that there's so many different topics and there's something for everyone.

Right, exactly.

So, but Chuck, not everything is perfect in Poller Berlin. What about the Wi-Fi? Because I have to ask you this.

We have some backup options that we have planned. But uh the um like getting the high-speed Wi-Fi didn't go as smoothly as we hoped it would.

Right.

You can say that. Um but yeah, we have some options to at least make sure that um speakers will have a good Wi-Fi when they're giving presentations.

Right. That's a good thing.

But uh unfortunately, I can't make any I've done my best. We've we've both we've the whole the whole team has tried many different routes. It's kind of funny watching the incredibly weird concoctions of possible internet that I've seen.

Right.

Because um we have um Andy on board this year. He's um provided uh or he's helped provide internet for um many Esperanto events around Europe. And so we have he's very capable of just whatever is available to make it as available as possible.

Fantastic.

So in very good hands.

And you know, I'm only half joking, of course, because um, you know, when you come to a conference like that and you have so many great opportunities to talk to people and hang out and socialize, there really isn't that much time for for Wi-Fi. It was just because it's it's a bit of an inside joke, but the Wi-Fi was so bad that nobody could even check email. So, I had I had I had to ask you and uh and and I know that you're doing everything you can to um to improve it for the next time around.

Right. And we also, I mean we also take it as quite a great compliment when the um biggest complaint is about our Wi-Fi. Because that's something it's we we we were just told by the hostel, they would take care of it and we said, okay.

Right. And never trust the hostel, I guess, is the lesson.

Well, it's a I mean, there's um many challenges from Wi-Fi. There's um whole essays online about conference Wi-Fi and just how incredibly challenging it is.

Right.

Which we've been dealing with um the like the location that's providing it and and the technical issues that go along with providing say internet for 300 people.

Yeah, of course. I mean 300 people on any internet would be stressful. Particularly if it's not set up in in a I mean it has to be some kind of fiber solution and you know, the the there has to be a lot of access points as well, otherwise you won't get Wi-Fi in the lobby or or in the rooms and So, um just being able to check their email, I I think is fine. But in any case, you know, if I have to take a week off the internet, I I wouldn't complain, because it's it it's still a uh totally worth it.

But I have Yeah, but having said all that, we're very happy with the location, because we chose this location because it's a hotel/hostel. Right. So, it basically if if someone is a student, they can stay in a room with eight beds and really cheaply and um I think it's 18 euros a night, if I'm not mistaken. And um if if someone wants a bit more, then they can get a single room for themselves or even, yeah. So, and I mean if they really want something better, they can find a four-star hotel in Berlin. It's it's Berlin after all.

Yeah. I think it's a lovely uh lovely uh location also because it provides these social areas like the bar, for instance, I think is brilliant. Rooftop bar, you know, can't be too loud up there, of course, because there's residents around, but you know, it's a it's a great venue and there's some table football and and other enjoyable things like karaoke, which was uh interesting. So.

And I think I I think our second biggest complaint was that it was too hot, so we moved it from June to May.

Right.

So.

It's going to make a big difference.

So we said these are great complaints to get.

It really is. And it was it was fantastic weather though. You have to you have to.

Yeah, it was very nice.

I don't know if that's luck or bad luck, but it was definitely fantastic weather all all throughout. And and a great event. But, you know, we

Summers are usually very nice.

Yeah, I think so. And it also gives you an opportunity to go out in the evening without wearing 20 coats or uh but yeah, it's it's a great event and, you know, I think I think we've covered sort of the uh the the good aspects of the event and I can only hope that people show up. Uh I know that some people are a little bit nervous about showing up at these events. Uh do you have any any comments for for people uh that way? Of course, I've I've done my best to try and dispel all these myths about um, you know, being nervous in front of a a conference. But do you have any uh a comment for that?

I think a lot of people have noticed that um you can really just go up and start talking with people. I mean, look at the badge and see what languages you have in common, you're already have something there. And you'll find that people are very friendly and receptive to new people. So, and I mean if you want um more views from more participants, um on our website at pollerberlin.com, you can also see a five-minute trailer, just generally about the event from different points of view of different participants.

Right. And in general, don't be nervous because, you know, we all we all have similar minds in in this and uh people are just so open and welcome, like you say, it's it's amazing. Like I was just coming there with my I just only found out about language learning and uh I came there with my two and a half languages or whatever and I'd never ever felt like I was being judged or anything. People were so open and supportive of whatever whatever I was doing or saying. So,

Right. I mean, we have people come there speaking two languages, we have people coming there speaking 35 languages.

Right.

Everything in between.

Yeah, I guess it I guess some people think when you call it like a Poller Conference, or sorry, Gathering, Poller Gathering, some people instantly assume that, oh, how many languages do I need to be able to join? But I guess it's a Poller Mindset Gathering in a way where it's not about the number, it's certainly not about the number, but it's more about how you think about the whole process, about learning languages, culture and and and just having an open mind and I think most people have that to be fair. It's a it's a great community.

Yeah, so on the average, some people speak five and a half languages there.

Right.

Statistics.

But I mean, if you only speak a couple languages, that's perfectly fine, too, as long as you're interested in languages. That's the most important thing. Yeah, for the motivation or inspiration, I think it's it's huge.

Absolutely, because I mean I attended the Poller Conference in Budapest and uh at that time, I had three rusty languages and I've I've shined them up a little bit by now. So, just from um just from meeting such amazing polyglots.

Yeah, and it gives you a goal. Gives you a goal as well. If you're if you're if you're looking towards the Poller Gathering, you might be saying, well, it's a good opportunity for me to practice my Icelandic or

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Somali or whatever people are working on uh these days. So, I can definitely recommend it.

I hope I can get my Polish up by then, but I don't know that's coming up quickly.

Yeah, go for it. I'll I'll be working on my uh Russian and Esperanto in in time for the event, because last time there were a lot of Esperanto speakers, and they were very nice people. Uh so I was a bit uh well, disappointed in myself that I didn't speak Esperanto, because there were so many nice uh Esperanto speakers. Obviously, they embraced me with open arms in in English, but uh now that I somewhat speak it, it's going to be interesting to go back and uh I I guess join join in.

It's actually funny because the Poller Gathering is um based on Esperanto Youth Conferences. So, I guess for a lot of Esperanto speakers there, it already feels very familiar.

Right. For them, it's the 20th gathering and not the second.

Right.

That's fantastic. Anyway, Chuck, I think we've uh we've covered the Poller Gathering and I'm really looking forward to it. And if people are interested in signing up, you know, be quick. Pollerberlin.com. And then uh look at the um crowdfunding on Indiegogo, just search for Poller Gathering. And uh you can get early access to the videos for as little as 10 euros, I believe.

That's right.

And there are also some other nice bonuses from trusted and knowledgeable uh language learning companies and personalities. So,

Yeah, I also want to I also want to thank those uh companies for being so generous with uh their offerings. And these, I mean these deals are just much lower than you can get from them directly.

That's perfect. I love that, you know, the kind of the community can work together in that way. It's it's it's a it's a lovely feeling. But anyway, the second topic of of our agenda today is uh something we've been talking about for a while, and that is Duolingo. And the reason that I'm talking to you today about this is that you are the main person behind the up and coming Duolingo Esperanto course.

That's right.

And of course, we talked about Esperanto last time, but this time, uh you know, let's talk about the Duolingo process. You know, how how do you actually how did you actually get in touch with the Duolingo guys? Did they come to you and say, hey, we need an Esperanto course, or did people actually say to them, you really need to make an Esperanto course. Can you find someone to do it?

It was a little of both. Um I mean, even when Duolingo was in its early stages, like when Duolingo was beta, they were um um I mean, I even contacted them directly and said, are you looking at Esperanto? And they said, it's on the roadmap. They even said that, but I I could tell it wasn't a priority, but that's I mean, that's perfectly understandable when you're working with the major languages at first.

Right. So. All right, that's cool. I I I can't believe that Esperanto, you know, as big as a movement as it is, could not only be the most requested, but also like win a survey. That seems it seems incredible, but obviously, that show just just shows you the demand for it. And you've been working hard at it uh for for a while now. When did you start working on the Esperanto course?

I think that was in October or November, I'm not sure. One of those months.

Right. And you you're now I can I say you're getting close to a beta release or is it still a little bit out?

Right now we're at 89% complete. Which is really exciting. And I saw just um this morning, we had the 15,000th sign up to hope to be notified when the the course goes live.

Wow.

It's also really exciting.

Yeah, there's a lot of people sitting there waiting for you to uh get get in gears.

Right. Yeah, one thing one other thing I wanted to mention is that about the demand for Esperanto course, I think a lot of the demand comes from the fact that um most traditional language companies don't have an Esperanto course.

Right.

So, they they look at the market probably by number of speakers and they say um yeah, we don't think the market's large enough. But the trouble is when when most of the companies are saying that, then that creates a market. Then there's no really good place to learn it. So, then then there's huge demand goes up for it.

Yeah, that makes sense. And there's no like uh Michelle Thomas Esperanto or Pimsleur Esperanto or so obviously, if Duolingo I guess Duolingo also realizes this and that's why they prioritize it over so many other languages is that the demand is there, but there's no real supply in a way. You know, there's no nobody's supplying it except for I guess learn you and a few select other places.

Right. And I mean, you also got um let's see. Um well I think it's also just to build um goodwill in the community as well. I mean, if you have a their community and so many people requesting Esperanto, then it's nice to give back to the community and give them what they're what they're requesting too.

Sure. Exactly. So, can you tell us about the the technical process of creating Esperanto course, well, I guess a Duolingo course. Uh did when when you sit down and you log into the the back end and you see all the the materials, are are the materials generated or is it uh has it been converted from another course? Or how how does it actually create the content?

Okay, so first of all, you have complete freedom and flexibility about the course. So, you can basically move any um skills around wherever you need them.

Right. I can see. Yeah.

Well, that's great. And and then it goes into once you've reached this critical mass, it goes into beta. Right. Is it when it goes into beta, does that mean that enough of it's finished to where you can throw it out, or is it that you've finished all of it and then going after beta is just fine tuning and adding more sort of horizontally?

Yeah, I've actually I've actually done the I was testing out Duolingo for a a while and I was doing the Danish course. Right. And I was just trying to test out of it and I don't know if it's ironic or not, but I couldn't test out of everything. Uh because it's, you know, it has its quirks, the Duolingo and if you hit a if you hit a typo or if you I mean I have fat fingers, so sometimes I hit the enter button without putting the last letter in and and so on and so forth. And I had a few sentences where I suggested alternate translations and they were accepted as well. After sometimes after a long time, but eventually they were accepted. So, I can it it's a bit like I suppose in a way, you're you're sort of crowd sourcing the course. Right. From, you know, you you're building the the skeleton, the the basic course, but then everyone is sort of giving feedback in a very controlled way, so you can add those correct answers. Right. I mean that's the idea behind the beta public test is that you have lots of testers who will give you feedback to help you improve the the course, or the product or whatever it is that you're testing. Right. And I suppose we should talk a little bit about, you know, Duolingo in general, because it's been under a bit of criticism, uh for for I've seen it for a long time and and recently as well. And I just wanted to know what do you what do you think about the sort of uh the concept? And I suppose the the most criticized aspect is the it has machine pronunciation. So, it's a synthesized voice. And the other complaint that I often see is the sentences are so weird. Like uh you send me something about a bear. I don't know. The bear. You're you're bear drinks beer. Yeah. And I was what do you think about about about these points of criticism?

Well, I think with the um I'll start with the sentences first. Um I mean I think a lot of the funny sentences are there just to keep people laughing, just to keep people going with the course. Right. Um so it's not just like your boring textbook, you know, class in high school. But um you can just laugh about things and translate lots of sentences in Dutch about ducks, for example. Every every course has a bit of its its own quirks.

Right. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes and and actually how many how many are you uh contributing to the actual uh sentences?

So, right now we're five people.

Right.

And we're all I mean, uh Ruth has basically taken her taken on herself um the task of sort of being the overviewer of the entire course itself. Whereas I'm more like um the just the general project manager, I guess you would say. But like also taking care of just contact with Duolingo and um contact with well, the press right now, for example.

I can imagine.

So, we didn't want to get to the last um the last day and say, oh, we should proofread this thing, too. He finished it when we were about two-thirds done creating the course. And so yeah, and then he started writing sentences as well. So, that's pretty exciting.

That's a that's a mammoth task. Right. So, he

That's cool. That's cool. What do you think about the the other points of criticism that Well, I I guess Oh, the text to speech. Yeah, yeah. Right. Um so I've from what I understand, the um that it's using I guess you should say robotic. It's not a really nice word for it, but uh like um synthetic uh text to speech because um it would be way too expensive for Duolingo to actually it's not the it's not the actual recording, it's the bandwidth of sending those those those files every time to the sentence from Duolingo servers. Whereas if another service provides that, it's a whole lot cheaper.

Right.

And I guess it's also a problem when you're using it on the go, if you're on the phone and some people have limited data plans. Right. If you have to get I, you know, I know it's not the biggest files in the world, but there's a big difference between a a text to speech and then raw MP3 files or whatever.

Absolutely.

Oh, that's good. Good argument.

So, we're actually yeah, we're working on the um text to speech for Esperanto now and looking at it and we found it's really really close to Polish. Doesn't be amusing. So, we've been um playing around with like um changing Esperanto letters to Polish letters and stuff and just to

That's interesting. Does that mean that Polish Esperanto speakers have a the more natural accent of Esperanto or or what would you say?

I I've heard that Croatian speakers tend to have the the best accent.

Right. Well, how's that judged? Like, how do they know if there's no kind of if there's no home of the

Right. It's actually interesting because when the first um uh Universala Kongreso happened in 1905, the people met from all over Europe speaking Esperanto and they found at the end of the week they'd actually all developed a sort of neutral accent.

Wow.

So, you can imagine that you've got Hungarian speaking with Frenchmen speaking with Englishmen speaking with Russians and

Yeah, I can't really imagine that, but it sounds like a nice story anyway. Right. I think so 650 people that first meeting. I can't imagine the excitement in the air in France to Yes, so strange and it's the 100 100th this year.

The 100th uh Universal Congress. That's right.

In Lee.

In Lee, France.

Yes, exactly. So if people are interested in in somewhat formal conference, I've heard it described as, then should go to Lee.

Yeah, I've heard they've already got 2,000 signups and they're still three, four months before it. I think yeah, three or four months before it happens.

So, it could be the biggest one yet.

It could be. Although I think the one in Warsaw, the 100-year anniversary probably be the biggest. That was just short of 6,000 participants.

Yeah, that's a lot of that's a lot of Esperanto speakers that were in one place.

And if there's anyone uh young out there listening, or for young in Esperanto, that means like 30 and under. But even if you're a little over 30, that's fine, too. Um or even if you're a lot older, it's okay. We have there's the International Youth uh um Congress in um Visban in Germany this year.

Right. Is that at the end of the year?

It's in July.

Oh, okay. So, it's in the summer. Yeah. Perfect. Um can I just ask you about Duolingo because and I I think I asked you this in private once, but why are you doing it?

Hmm.

Because, you know, it seems like it's a really, really lot of work and I know the contributors on Duolingo don't receive a salary. Right. So, why did you why did you say yes to it?

I mean, I think it's the same reason why I um well, why I founded Wikipedia also, well, in 2001 in Esperanto. Um just saw this amazing potential for this and even though I'm not getting paid for it, I really wanted to um help well, in the case of Wikipedia, I wanted to help people be able to build a a knowledge, well, we all know Wikipedia, I think, but uh to build a knowledge base, an encyclopedia. And actually for Esperanto, that was even more exciting, because there was no general knowledge encyclopedia. There were encyclopedias about the movement, but not about just general knowledge. So, that was really exciting at that time with Wikipedia.

200,000 people.

Right. So, right now there's 15,000 people signed up just to be notified.

Right.

And I mean, once it's launched, obviously there's um I mean, the media hears about it and you're getting one of those rare pre-launch uh interviews, actually.

Oh, yeah, here we go. The listeners on the actual fluency podcast are very privileged in this aspect. Also, also, you know,

Oh, yeah.

thank you for talking about behind-the-scenes, because I know that, you know, it's not always uh easy to to talk about how things are behind the behind the scenes, but it's very it's very interesting to hear about.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Yeah. Do you do you think that it's going to I mean 200,000 people is not a I I know it's a you you pulled that number out the out of the air, but um do you think that the course could potentially create some kind of Esperanto Renaissance in in the sense that I I I know the popularity of Esperanto hasn't exactly been declining, but do you think it could spark something sort of really unexpected and it would really hit some kind of mainstream level that we haven't seen before?

I I think pretty much anything is possible. I mean, even the Berlin Wall, no one saw coming down the week before.

So, we could see next year, next year, we could see 50,000 people at the World Congress. We could see the Rosetta Stone Esperanto. We could Possibly. We could see uh we could see, you know, um you could probably see see a lot more uh youth organizations uh pop up or just uh regional.

I mean, I heard I heard recently from from a big language company. I can't say which one, that that they're planning this summer to release an Esperanto course. So, that's something to be excited about there.

Oh, that's interesting. They and they didn't ask you to voice it or produce it or anything?

I helped a bit, but

Oh, okay. So, you can

I can't go into details, unfortunately.

All right. DNA everything.

It's actually funny with the Universal Congresses, because um it actually it stopped growing not because the community stopped growing, but because it's just really hard to get a location for more than 5,000 people.

Who would have known.

Right. Cause like people see that like, oh, why doesn't why don't the Esperanto congresses grow? But then when you're when you see like the organizational side of it and just find trying to find try to find a venue for 5,000 people that's not say a stadium.

Yeah.

You know. I mean, even stadiums what hold I don't know, 50,000 people. That's a stadium. That's not a conference environment.

In the seats, you can't put 50,000 people on the pitch, right?

Right, exactly.

I wouldn't hope so anyway, but I guess you can go to Vegas. I've seen a lot of conference centers in Vegas that host huge conferences. Yeah. I mean, there's there's big conference centers everywhere. But I think most of the max most cities that have the largest conference center around 5,000. Or even 2,000. And then you have the problem of accommodation as well, because even if you could find a building large enough, you'd still need to have hotels or hostels be able to fit people just in in a vicinity of maybe, you know, 50 kilometers. It couldn't be outside the country or anything.

Absolutely. It's interesting. So, Poller Gathering in in five years time, what what are you going to do when you hit that 5,000. I'm not sure we want to. I mean, um so I mean, I know another organization called um well they it's actually it's an iPhone developer conference called 360 Idev that they actually consider 360 to be the ideal number of participants in a conference because um with 360, you have enough people that you've got um quite a lot of depth and lots of topics. And you've got few enough people that you keep running into the same people again and again. Cause also you can I've heard of people who go to say the Universala Kongreso and I mean, if it's their first time, that can be really intimidating to be especially if you don't speak Esperanto that well yet, to be in a in a group of 2,000 people, for example. It's just um you can imagine. Singing the songs and waving the flags.

No, but it's I it's an interesting discussion anyway, because the the less people there are, the more you can sort of dive into topics, you can you can get to know people more. I mean, I had trouble at the last gathering meeting everyone. It just wasn't enough time. Of course, you you tend to stick to people you know, you don't spend all day saying hi to new people. But, you know, I would I would generally try to meet people all the time and I still found, you know, now almost a year later, I find that I talk to people who were there and I I I don't even remember seeing them there. So, you know, it's it's even with 200, it's it's very difficult to meet to talk to anyone. So, if you have like 300 and 360, maybe that's a good uh core, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be kind of sad if let's say 500 people wanted to go.

Well, I mean, you can also have more than just have them more often. Right. Poller Gatherings always too. So, it's it's a possibility. So, there's always ways to scale things. And I mean, you already have the the gathering and the conference. Right. So, we're excited to um about the Poller Conference coming up in New York City in October as well.

Oh, are you going?

We're going, yeah.

Oh, you've

And we'll be we'll be happy to be casual participants there. Right. Maybe maybe speaking, but it's a whole different level than being one of the head organizers.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, you were so busy last time. I remember seeing you just you never had a a quiet moment.

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's too it's too easy to stay up till say 3:00 AM talking with polyglots and Yeah. And realize, oh, it's 9:00. I need to get up and set up that projector and Yeah, exactly.

Fantastic. Well, Chuck, it's been a an absolute pleasure as as usual to hear about the gathering and the inner workings of uh of Duolingo. Um should we just remind people of the the important links here before we go? If you go to Pollerberlin.com, register immediately. Just don't even think about it. Just register and hope that you get a spot. And the crowd fund for the high quality videos, go to Indiegogo and search for Poller Gathering. And you can spend as little as 10 euros and you get early access to the high quality videos made by uh professionals, ish.

Well, people working in a film I mean students of a film school do very good work.

Right. Exactly. And they want to prove themselves, so they might even over-perform anyway.

Yeah. I mean, we're really excited. They came last year to shoot um footage for a a Poller documentary already. So, they're already really excited about languages. So, we're not just talking about some group we found on the street that wants to shoot a video. No, it's going to be great. And I I think it's a good uh good cause and you're over, I think, budget is 2700 is required. And if you don't reach that, the everything will be lost. So, please go and and support the course and Right now we're just over 2,000. So, it seems like we're going to make it.

Right.

With your help.

I already put my uh German uh what are they uh are they red euro notes in there. So, I hope that other people will will follow suit. But um Thank you very much for that.

You're welcome.

Uh thank you so much for for organizing everything and uh I look uh I look forward to coming back to Berlin.

Okay, we look forward to having you.

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