Seán Young: How to Teach Languages the Best Way

On this episode of the actual fluency podcast, I'm joined by Seán Young. Seán has been teaching languages for 30 years, and in this episode he teaches us how to become better language teachers.

I am doing fine.

Fantastic.

So far.

So far. It's only going to get better.

Oh, yeah.

Exactly. So, uh for those who don't know you, can you give uh a real quick introduction to yourself and what you do?

Well, um, well as you said, I've been in the language business for 30 years. But uh, I've actually started in 1978 when I was 13 years old. Uh, teaching, well, not teaching but uh, as in middle school when I was learning about ancient Egypt, and the language, uh, the hieroglyphs and stuff intrigued me and that's what started me learning. I started studying the hieroglyphs and how to speak ancient Egyptian. And uh, of course I'm not very fluent in that today, since I don't have very many ancient Egyptians around to talk to.

No.

But uh, but I I just had this passion for languages ever since and that's pretty much what I've been doing. Just almost living and breathing languages.

It just kept going. That that start there just propelled you to just get Yeah.

Yeah, I guess something snapped and there I went.

That's incredible though and and I've I've talked to other people about this where they have this defining moment where some interest peaked and that literally defines the course of their lives and I I just find that amazing to to happen for you with with languages.

Yeah.

Um of course you're from America, in America as well. Um and it's not very, I wouldn't say normal, but it's not very natural to learn a lot of languages in America. How was it back then when you started out? Was it even worse or was it better or?

Um, I'd say it's about the same. Um, here in the United States, most people are are of the of the um mindset, I guess you can say that, you know, here in America we speak English. And the thing is, America does not have an official language. So, all bets are off there. But uh, but yeah, when when people hear that heard back then and even now with that I'm learning a language, they look at me like, "Really?" you know, it just depends on, you know, what they're actually, it's either like, "Why are you doing that?" or, "Hey, that's really cool," you know.

Right. Well, that that's it's cool to get a a bit of mixed uh mixed impressions that way.

Oh, yeah.

So, what can we do as as, you know, we we're both content publishers in language learning? Albeit um kind of in the shadows of course. But, how what can we do to inspire more people, maybe particularly in America, to to learn languages and remove that weird, you know, stigma almost that is with learning more languages?

Well, that's uh, that's a good question. A lot of good answers on that one. Um, I would say probably if you think about the global economy and how even though most people around the world speak English, um and there's a lot of business that does stuff in English, there's still only 9% of the world will speak and understand English.

Right.

And and there's all the rest of them that doesn't. And so, therefore, to try and reach them, you know, and if you want to do business with them or just have communication or to uh have better uh camaraderie, especially with tourism and things like that, you know, learning another language it can help you either uh get make new friends or if you're going on tourism, you won't believe how much better service and discounts you can get on things talking in their language.

Awesome. So you think we should uh we should send out a memo to to the American population and say, "If you want to save more money on your holidays, you should uh should learn the language."

That is correct.

Well, that's.

And same with business too. You can get better services that way too.

Right. And of course, if you speak, I mean, the Asian countries have been developing for many years and are now really strong economies. And if you want to do business in in China or in Japan, usually it's it's very, very good to have that language to to be able to conduct business. And

Oh, yeah.

I know they have, I mean, they're they're very reserved cultures. So, if you just come and and and speak English, they might understand you and they might have English skills as well. But it's just a a whole different experience, isn't it?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I I travel through Europe and and it is quite interesting to see the differences between those who are willing to speak a foreign language or those who are not.

Right. It's just it's just a matter of attitude, isn't it?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and that goes back to learning as well. I mean, if you don't feel like you have you should or you need to, I mean, then why should you? It it's it's attitude, isn't it?

Yeah, and that attitude is fed by a lot of these um companies that want people to believe that languages are difficult or impossible to learn. I mean, they feed that to the public to give so that people will think, "Oh, well, maybe their method is better. I'll pay for them." But it really doesn't do much. So, you know, it's there's a lot of myth going that's being going on, you know.

Right. Yeah, and oh, maybe that's maybe that's the kind of the key to opening up language learning for more people is to simply let them know that it's not as hard as you think it is.

Yeah, that's that's something that I've always emphasized for years with my business. You know, I've always given little tips and stuff on how to make a language easier to learn.

Right. That's, yeah, I I I noticed you you wrote a book about um Spanish, what you already know, talking about uh cognates is the uh fancy term some people like to use about it, where basically you look at the the loan words or the impressions that another language has in the target language that you're trying to learn. And and that's what you mean, right, with I mean, you already know a lot.

Cognates and things that look very similar. I mean, I have one like you said for uh Spanish, you already know. I have one for Italian and Portuguese. And I'm doing some others for like Danish, German, Dutch, other languages that are related to English. Which if the person speaks English, they can learn like 14 other European languages without a problem.

Yeah, it's ridiculous, isn't it?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm doing I'm doing some some minor work in in a lot of languages and and the similarity is just I mean, it's it's incredible. So, I can definitely relate to that.

Well, speaking of Danish, Norwegian won't count for you.

Actually I have a funny funny story about that. I I was actually going to learn Norwegian to because I as you know, I I'm Danish. So, I of course know that Norwegian is almost the same as as Bokmål, as as the Norwegian Bokmål. But, the thing is that when I put it into my Memrise, my vocabulary training, and I did, you know, I I started at the back end in a in a frequency list. So, I took the hardest words first. I just looked at Danish words. And I was like, "This is not even worth my time. This is how similar it is." So, I'm now considering to calling myself fluent in Norwegian as well. What do you think about that?

That you could probably do that, yeah. Cuz Danish and Norwegian, well, when they were once one kingdom, you know, they all shared the same language practically.

That's the I mean, that's incredible. That's how how close it is. And I'm sure the French and the the Spanish speaking countries have very similar experiences, you know, with the the different sub uh maybe the dialects and and stuff like that where they can understand each other mutually. Like, I've heard about Spanish and Portuguese, even though those are, I would say different languages definitely. I mean, I've heard that they both speak each other's language. So, I mean, they understand it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, when when I remember in high school, I had a girlfriend from Mexico. And she was talking to a Brazilian exchange student. They, you know, I heard Spanish and Portuguese going along, blah blah blah blah and I'm like, "How do you know that?"

Right. Exactly. I mean, yeah, it's and that's the joys of, I I think that's the really what one of the first things anyone should tell a new language learner is you know a lot of words already. Like, I'm studying Russian as well and even in there, there's so many English words that it's it's kind of easy. There's also words that don't sound like anything I've ever heard, but, you know, that's the challenge of it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So, if we talk about, um we've meant we talked about your uh your consulting business, your teaching business. What what is it exactly you do? Because when you say language consulting, does that mean that you actually tutor people or you're more into the business side where you go out to businesses and teach or is it simply everything that relates to language consulting?

Pretty much everything. Um, if you have a language uh related question, I can answer it for you. If you need some clarification of something, I can answer that for you. If if you want language lessons or little tidbits here and there, you know, I just I do it all.

All right. So, it's like 1-800 languages or something.

There you go. Hey, I should try that.

I don't know, the phone's might be going out of service soon, to be replaced by Skype. So.

That's true.

Well, that's great. Um so, um, you know, I we often talk about language learning and and and that aspect of the of the coin. But what I really wanted to talk to you is since I have this, you know, amazing language teacher who's been doing it for so long is is really language teaching. Cuz um, uh, that is important. Oh, yeah. Even if we're self-taught, we're still teachers in that way and we still use, I mean, we can maybe call the software or the audio calls or whatever tools we use to teach ourselves might be the teacher in that aspect. But, teaching is really important I feel like. And I feel like a lot of people, myself included, and in fact, that's how we we connected actually on Facebook is that I put a post up saying, "I would really like to teach somebody Danish." And it wasn't any anyone specific. So, it was really kind of a all all I mean encompassed everyone who might be interested in Danish. And I asked, "How do I teach people Danish?" And it's a big question. And you linked to your, you had a Finnish course, I think.

Yeah.

And kind of showing how you would approach it. And I was very inspired by that. So, so it actually also applies a lot to me on how to how to become a teacher. And I think a lot of people are interested in tutoring maybe or, you know, uh making a few a few dollars here and there on the side if they want to teach somebody else a language. So, let's get into that, the teaching aspect. Um, how is it how different is it to teach uh sort of one-to-one or, you know, as a consulting compared to the teaching in a classroom setting?

Well, in a classroom setting, you are teaching or you're talking to multiple students. And each student has a different way of teaching. Not every of learning, I mean. Uh, not everybody has one generic way to learn. Everybody's different. And from that, you have to teach something generically, teach lessons generically. In a way that hopefully everybody will understand. Of course, everybody's going to have questions and things.

Mhm. You can specialize the the content to fit with their needs specifically. Yeah. And of course, that's also why why people generally have better success learning a language with a one-on-one tutor compared to the classrooms. Because I know in Europe, particularly in Denmark, I know that when you go to high school or whatever and you go into your German classes, a lot of people don't actually gain any kind of fluency. They might get some basic vocabulary and maybe some basic knowledge of the grammar, but they don't they can't speak the language. Is do you feel like that's the same that happens in America? I mean, as a generalization, of course.

Oh, yeah. I I've seen um like in in high schools and things. Um, a student will go through their classes perfect, 100% getting A's, you know. And they'll be like maybe a a B1 level. Right. According to the, you know, European framework. But when they get out of school, they can't order a sandwich. You know, they don't know how.

Right.

Cuz uh, normally, well, I'm not sure exactly the teaching methods over there in Europe. But here in the United States, it's more like, you know, uh grammar intensive and this is how you're supposed to say it, repeat it back to me.

Right. Yeah, that sounds very similar actually. They probably got it from the same place originally.

Yeah. So, I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, that was it. That was it.

Oh, okay. And so with with me, I've I've learned and, you know, researched and I've developed a way that the uh best way to teach a student is to have the students teach each other.

Right.

And this kind of environment, I prefer to have like maybe four or five students together in a group. That way they can uh like I me as the teacher, I give them what they need to know, kind of explain how to how to go about doing it. And then they will talk among themselves as to how does the uh material translate? What are they learning? You know,

Right.

And talk among each other to try and figure out what's wrong. And the teacher should be just a person who is guiding them to whatever like if they're really stuck and they can't find the answer or something like that.

But why isn't that I mean, that that sounds like a really great way of doing it, but why is that not possible in in schools? I mean, if you have 20 students, why can't you just form four of of your groups and and then have it work that way?

Well, people are more into the are more into um the traditional style of teaching that has been quote-unquote proven accurate for centuries. Yeah. So, um, and that's what that's what they use cuz anything new, they will kind of like not be sure of or they'll try to uh put it down as it's not going to work or anything like that. But uh, I did have my teaching methods outlined in a book. And I have a a teacher down in Houston, Texas, who tried it with his class. Yeah. A Spanish class. And he says that the students have really improved immensely in that way alone.

But that's incredible. That that's that's a a testament to to the method, isn't it?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, and that's just one class.

Yeah, that's.

You could roll it out then a lot more people could could improve.

Yeah, and there's I'm just trying to figure out how I can uh make it more marketable and, you know, and see if that could be more of a standard way of teaching.

Right. I think you need to get into the school lobbies, like the big organizations that, you know, do all the political lobbying for for what course works and textbooks should be in in the classrooms.

Oh, yeah.

Probably need some political contacts there, unfortunately. Um so, if we if we move on a little bit from from the classroom and into you into the more intimate setting of let's say a few students or maybe even one-on-one. What what's some of the, if you if you're just starting out being a tutor, let's call it a tutor. If you're not that experienced, a tutor is probably more more of a a fitting word. How how do you go about being a great tutor for someone? Like say you go on to the Anki or one of the other websites that facilitate this kind of contact. How do you become a great tutor without, you know, obviously you you get paid for the service per hour you do. But how do you prepare for teaching someone else on that kind of tutoring level?

Well, uh, basically you have to get to know the student first. Um, I have I will contact the student first. And first time meeting them, I will, you know, talk with them, interview them kind of. Find out what what they need for language. What they're going to use it for. What their knowledge is or skill level. If they've learned languages before. And uh, I also have some um assessment sheets that I give them to so that they can mark off what they can do in a language if they've learned one before.

Right.

And that that will tell me exactly where they are. So that I can go from there and create customized lessons for them.

Right.

You know, cuz like I said before, you know, nobody can learn the same way no matter what.

Right. So, you want to sit down and get to know how their language mind or brain works before you sit down with the language.

Yeah.

That's a really that's a really interesting idea. And obviously a really good idea as well. Um, I guess the the the thing is that you you might get a student who's never done the language before. They if you're let's say I'm Danish, which I happen to be, luckily. Um and somebody wants to learn Danish from me and they have never seen a Danish word or text or heard Danish before. How do you then use that assessment to to build a program? And if they haven't even learned a foreign language before, how can you know what kind of learner they are? Do you then try them out and and ask them about their school experience or other subjects or? Like, how would you assess someone like that who, I mean, someone like the typical American maybe?

Well, let's say, for example, you, let's say you wanted to learn Swahili. And what I would do is I you know, like I said, I I just sit down, talk with you, uh find out what language experience you had before in the past. Obviously, you do have some being European. And uh, and your other um personal studies. And I will then uh try and kind of figure out where to go from there. Um, it's kind of like a open-ended interview like we're doing right now, you and I. Uh trying to just bounce each other's ideas off and uh, see what they can do on whatever they need to do.

Right, get the get their goals maybe, so you have something to to stick to. Like, if they're going to Germany in six months, then maybe that's the goal for some kind of basic fluency or, you know, get that.

Yeah.

Get those smart goals.

And sometimes when I ask, you know, like, you know, what do you need the language for? Cuz I don't expect everyone to want to know generic stuff. Like, if you're going to travel to a to a country where they speak Swahili, you're going there for business, then I will focus more on traveling and business type uh lessons. If you're going just for tourism, I'll give you tourism stuff, you know. Right. I won't give you all the extra stuff that you don't need, like any grammar rules that I know you won't be using. I won't teach you those.

Right.

Or vocabulary that you won't be using, you know. Right. So, I I teach you what you need to know and I just kind of try to feel it out from there.

I think that's a really good I think that's a really good thing. Cuz then when you if if people who are listening want to tutor someone in in their own language, then they can start by figuring out, well, who is the student and what is their goal and then try to find material related to that.

Yeah.

Um how would that material kind of look like? If you're let's say I was uh I was coming to you and I want to learn German because I'm going to Germany on a on a holiday. Would you then use uh like textbook kind of texts or would you use audio listening to German movies? How would what would that typical kind of content, so to speak, of the lessons be like?

Uh, well, if you're going on holiday to Germany, what I will what I do is I make out uh a a basic I I have generic lessons that I have that I customize according to the person, like, for example, basic generic German lessons. But if you want to go on holiday, then I will add in stuff like to uh go sightseeing, some shopping type phrases or travel by taxi if you'll be using a taxi.

Right.

And uh, I will also throw in not just uh standard German uh speech type stuff, but I will also help you hear through audio how the language is actually spoken when you hear it on the street.

Right.

Cuz not everybody's going to say, you know, "Guten Tag, wie geht es Ihnen?" You know, they'll just say, "Hey, good. Tag, wie geht's?" You know, something like that, you know.

Very fast as well. Germans of course being known for that.

So, I I get you to understand, to listen for, you know, actual colloquial speech. Right. And how you can use it yourself and any kind of slang or idioms that would be appropriate for the situation that you're in.

Right. It sounds like you're taking a very practical approach. I mean, of course, it's a very practical situation. But would you say in general that your approach to to language teaching is is based more on using the language rather than knowing maybe every single grammar rule or every end to?

Yeah.

Okay. I guess that's normal for the students as well. It's very rare for students to come to you and ask, "I want to know all the grammar of German."

I've had some people like that where they just want to know the language just for the sake of knowing it. Right. Which is understandable. That way, you know, cuz you got like newspapers or TV shows that use the standard language. And so if if they need that, that's fine too.

It's very hard though, starting out with knowing everything about German grammar.

Yeah.

I don't even do that and I can throw a rock to the German border almost.

Yeah, I'm telling you, sometimes German grammar and some European languages, they got some grammar that Icelandic especially will make me give me a headache, you know.

Right. Right. So is that is that kind of your uh if you wake up in the middle of the night and you have a language grammar nightmare, is that's in Icelandic then?

Yes. I guess you could say that, yes.

So conversely what is the the language you've tried with the I guess the least advanced grammar or the easiest to learn or pick up?

Um, the easiest to learn or pick up that I've taught or?

Well, just I kind of uh I guess uh gotten gotten to know somehow, just not, you know, it doesn't have to be very extensively, just got to know it somehow.

Of of Spanish. You know, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese. All right. Uh those are the real easy ones for an English speaker to learn.

Mhm.

So, um, can recommend Danish as well. It's nice. Simple grammar. I don't know if it's the easiest one, but it's definitely a lot more simple than people think. Yeah.

So, uh go ahead.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, I was just going to say I saw also uh on your website, you have a a little section about language teaching with a bit of uh, you know, some gold tips and advice. But if you had to and of course I'll I'll I'll send I'll throw a link to to that website and those pages. And you can always find the links and everything at the bottom of the show notes, which is actualfluency.com and then the episode number. So, in this case it would be 04. So, episode four. Um but the question was, if you had, you know, you have all this wisdom, all these good tips and tricks about language teaching. If you had to give like your top three tips to be a great language teacher, what would those be?

Um, do not teach in a traditional sense, in the in the traditional teaching way. Make sure the student understands before you move on to the material to new material. And keep it keep it simple to understand and clearly understood.

Right. So, keep it simple. Make sure the student understands. And don't teach in a traditional sense, like in the classroom kind of just yelling out grammar and repetition.

Correct.

Like we'd mentioned before. Okay, those are some really good ones, I think. And if you if you're teaching someone, let's say in a one-on-one kind of scenario, what kind of um additional resources would you supplement the teaching with? We talked about, you know, text and audio. But are there any kind of softwares or audio courses or something where you say, "You know, you could really use this to supplement the the teaching material as well."

Well, uh, you can with with, of course, with the internet, you can go anywhere and find stuff like online radio, YouTube videos, uh newspapers. Right. As for as for software, I would uh say something that can help reinforce would be like um like Rosetta Stone, uh Transparent Language. Uh, they have uh software that's, you know, some free online lessons that can also help you with some grammar rules. Um, and for audio type stuff, I mean, Pimsleur is good. They are limited in some of the things that they can that you can say or do with it. But Pimsleur is good for hearing how a language sounds and things. And of course, like I said, the actual YouTube videos and stuff like that online, you can hear the language in the wild, I guess you can say.

Right.

You know, just go out there and find them cuz the opportunities are out there.

Yeah, I mean, obviously the internet has kind of revolutionized language learning and made it easier than it ever was before.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, when I started way back in the '70s and '80s. That was hard.

Not much language learning going on back then in general.

Yeah.

Which is kind of a shame. But I guess it it languages are so alive and fluent and that that they kind of needed that medium of the internet to really blossom. Cuz all this polyglot thing and stuff, I mean, that's I guess a product of the internet in in in in a sense. Yeah. But it's I mean, I I just feel very fortunate that I'm I'm getting into this now with the internet and not having to bike to the library and and get the one course in Spanish that they might have and not be limited to.

Oh, yeah.

So, it's amazing. And and I guess that's a good segue to um to ending the kind of the language teaching as we talk about here and how to become a better tutor, teacher. Um and of course, you've also been studying a lot of languages. And I think if you're a really good language teacher, you would be studying anyway. But how do you balance because I read I read on your website that you've you've looked at 50 languages and And uh, of course looking, I'm assuming that that that it's very different uh from learning. But and I guess that some of those 50 you looked at a lot and some of those 50s you you just glanced a bit at. But how do you balance, you know, teaching languages a lot, and I presume that's, you know, a full-time job kind of thing, and then also in your free time learning languages. Don't you get sick and tired of languages by the time when you go to bed and you've studied all day?

Well, yes and no. I'm just one of those weird type of people that just live and breathe languages. I'm always thinking about them. Right. Um, as for teaching them and learning them at the same time, it's gotten to the point where right now it's a uh teaching myself while learning type process, I guess you can say. Right. Cuz like uh, I was learning Hindi uh last year. And in the process of uh learning Hindi, I would go out and find um different resources cuz I live in a in in the Dallas area. So, there's a lot of Hindi stuff around. So, I would go out there and teach myself by finding people and asking them questions.

Right. So, engaging with the native speakers of the language is an important thing, you think.

Yeah. And that's that's something that's always important that I always do. I always encourage my students, when you're talking to a native speaker, always make sure you ask them, you know, something like if something didn't sound right to you, just ask them, "Did I say that right?" or "How do I say so-and-so in your language?" or something.

Constantly bug find or uh, you know, look for mistakes that you're doing so you don't reinforce the mistakes by repeating them all the time.

Right. Yeah, that's something I struggle with a lot as well. It's really hard, I think, to when you're learning a new language to actually look at your own sentence and find the flaws. And some of the, you know, I have a Russian tutor. She's very friendly and everything and but if she had to correct every single mistake, we would do nothing else. So, of course there's a balance to it. Um, but I really, you know, I really like it when she says, you know, we would say this or that was almost right or it it kind of annoys me sometimes when I know she just accepts it even though I know I made a mistake or I made a questionable formulation. But, I mean, you you're saying that you should also carry some of the responsibility yourself and when you're out there in the wild, so to speak, just ask, "Was that okay?" And I'm sure you can say that in very few words in in the target language. You don't have to say long sentences of, "Did I use the prepositional object correctly?" or whatever.

Yeah.

You just ask, "Okay." That's almost enough, isn't it? "Okay."

Yeah, they understand what you're talking about and they will they will sometimes tell you either did okay or they will, you know, correct it for you.

Right. And be having an open mind. But of course, that that kind of goes with the whole, you know, choosing to learn a language in the first place. You already have that open mind mindset. So, you can actually go out and and find your own mistakes. You you don't have to be, you know, scared or afraid of uh saying uh a word incorrectly or using a a wrong the wrong grammar because I mean, that would just halt you.

Yeah, sometimes that might come up. That's why when I when I teach and people say, "Oh, how do I say the vulgar words and swear words?" I'm like, "I don't teach those because they might accidentally come up and you're going to offend somebody." Right. You know. Yeah, you have to be really careful with culture as well because, you know, and definitely in Europe and I guess in America as well. Swear words might be quite innocent and widely used, but in in other cultures, they might be really, really strong and like used to almost like summon Satan himself or, you know.

Oh, yeah. No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah. So, so I guess that's a a good point. If you're learning a new language and it's in a culture that's vastly different from your own, be sure to to kind of get to know that culture a little bit so you don't just, because they're also a normal sentences. What do you talk about? For instance, talking about money in in Europe is way different from talking about money in in America. In in Europe we don't talk about money that way. Like, we don't talk about how much we have. We don't talk about how much we make. If you ask someone, "How much money do you make?" That's actually quite offensive. But if you go to America, I get the impression that's quite normal. That's quite kind of like, that's just a normal dinner table question. So, how do you how much do you make? Maybe you can correct me on on that if if that's not entirely the case.

No, that's that's the case here in America. Um asking somebody, "How much do you make?" I mean, it depends it's up to the person being asked whether they want to answer or not. Right. You know, mostly they'll answer you, you know. But, um, you know, it's really nothing no big deal here.

Right. Yeah, and it is here. I mean, nobody would answer it with a number at least. They might say, "I'm doing okay," or, "Yeah, I could do better," or something. But even even then, they might still feel offended. So, that's a a good example of how how different the culture is. And I know um Judith who I who I'll have on the podcast as well, uh in the last episode actually, speaking uh back to the future here. But um, she also talks about how how it is in German and she runs this blog about German culture. And she talks about how some tourists don't really know the German, you know, how the mentality is. So, I guess that's a a big point to bring out of this is do your research in the target language and ask native speakers, "How how what do you think about this question or this word? How does it make you feel?" And and and really get to know it. And I guess that's studying a language and its culture at the same time.

Yeah, that's important too. It's knowing the culture because the culture shapes the language also.

Mhm. So, do you do you have any uh I I talked about this example of Danish or German. Do you have any examples of of that where you where you learned some culture in in in along with learning a language and some surprises maybe or something you went, "Hmm, that's interesting."

I see that I I do that a lot.

Well, there there's there's a usual uh the the basics of culture, like shake hands, make eye contact, you know, things like that. But, uh, now I'm trying to think now, um, yeah, there's a lot of them, but there's so many of them we can't find them.

It's like um, when I taught Arabic to people to some men who go to like Saudi Arabia or something like that, and I tell them, "Shake hands with a man, but don't shake hands with a woman over there." Right. You know, it's like, "Well, why not?" And I'm like, "Well, according to their culture, you know, it's forbidden under Muslim, you know, culture and things like that, you know. Right. And so I said, "The only time you shake hands with a woman is if she's like, you know, a family member or if she extends her hand first." Right. Otherwise, don't offer your hand for a handshake to a, you know, over there.

That's super important as well and taking off your shoes outside the church and other things like that. Um and and I guess if you're from France and you do the uh the kissing uh greetings, then that's something you probably shouldn't do in Arabic countries as well.

Right.

So, that's.

No.

That's really good. So, with with all these languages and all this studying, what are some of the lessons to learning a new language that you you kind of like like to share to the people who are learning languages out there? Like, what are some of the again, if we went back to the golden tips of of language teaching, what are your tips about language learning that we haven't already talked about?

Um, how many you need?

Well, I don't know, a few, I guess.

The top ones that I can think of is just, uh, when you start to learn a language and you decide to learn one, just jump right in. Don't hesitate. Um, do not be afraid to make mistakes. They exist so that we can learn from them. Right. You know, and uh, and whatever you do, don't think you have to learn um everything in one sweep. You know, take your time. That's all you can do.

There's a lot of focus right now, isn't there, about, you know, people saying, "Oh, I learned Spanish in three months," or, "I did it in six weeks," and it that that I feel like that can hinder people's progress because they have natural expectations. So, what do you think about?

Yeah, something like that, it's it's a nice goal to have, but it's pretty much very, very difficult to reach. Because if you don't know where to start or how to do it, then you will get confused and, you know, frustrated or disappointed. Uh so, yeah, like you said, you know, setting a goal is not really a good idea, but at least have some kind of goal, you know, like, today I'm going to learn the conjugation of this verb here or tomorrow I'll learn this, you know, sentence or paragraph or something, you know.

Yeah. We've talked about goal setting in in in the in the very very first episode of the podcast where we said that, you know, it's good to have a grip a kind of an anchor in a goal. But if you make that goal too unrealistic, then it can have adverse effects. Whereas if you said, "I want to learn Russian in two months," or, "one month," or whatever, and you don't do it, the disappointment might be, you know, much greater than if you said, "I'll learn it in six months. I might need eight, but at least, you know, I got close," or whatever.

Yeah.

"At least I tried it." Exactly. And I I think a lot of people also underestimate just doing I mean, I'm I'm I'm studying a lot of languages now and and and you have during during a lot of years. But, I guess the the one point that I'm kind of getting now is when I'm studying these languages, I'm not necessarily interested in the end result right in the middle of studying it. Cuz the journey or the studying in itself is quite interesting. Like, just knowing one word in Russian or one phrase or or getting to read one sentence. I mean, it really opens up. It's exciting, isn't it?

Oh, yes. And when you can say it to a native speaker and they understand you, boom, there you go.

Instant gratification. But people don't give themselves the opportunity to be in that position because they never begin.

Yeah.

Cuz they think it's too hard.

And sometimes they'll have these um these uh notions in their mind that it's going to be hard, so I got to really study, work at it, you know.

Right. And that that doesn't sound fun, does it?

No, that's the wrong attitude to have.

Exactly. Um, so, before we wrap up here, I just wanted to maybe take a just a little step to the side and ask you, I mean, you've been doing you've been having your own language consulting business for almost 30 years now in June. And I know you have a a little fun competition for that.

Yes.

And is that something you want to share with the listeners?

Yes, it's a uh little contest type thing where you can uh, I got a Facebook group up for it where you can upload a picture or a video of uh yourself either speaking a foreign language that you're learning or practicing. Uh, the picture can be well, a picture of yourself with a caption or something in the language you're studying. And just upload it and see how many people will like them. And the winners, the top three winners will win cash prizes and free language lessons.

Ooh, we like us some cash prizes and language lessons. Is it did I read it correctly that you would give give away a year's worth of language lessons?

Yes, sir.

That, man, that's such a big prize. Shouldn't that be first prize?

That that will be first prize.

Good.

There's a a cash prize and the one year of free language lessons for first prize.

Holy. But then again, 30 years of uh the 30 year anniversary of a a language learning business doesn't happen often, does it?

Not too often.

So, you want to make it a big party.

No.

So, are you going to have a reception in in Dallas and uh invite everyone to uh come down and speak a lot of languages and have some champagne and

That would be an interesting idea. Well, I I'm I'm still kind of getting things uh figured out here and rearrange and organize, but, you know, I I could probably come up with something like that.

Yeah, just be sure you don't schedule it on top of the uh Polyglot Berlin conference. Cuz I know quite a few Americans are going going there at least.

Oh, no, I want to I want to hold competition with them. They will, no, I'm just kidding.

I know. Yeah. So.

That's hilarious.

Oh, that. I mean, yeah, you could, I guess, uh being in America, uh so that's that's kind of the the logistical problem, isn't it? That a lot of bringing together American, Europe is so expensive in in terms of plane tickets. Yeah. Uh that normal people just can't go to to these events. I mean, uh I would love to come over and say hi to you and and meet you in person and and and check out the the the the Dallas area. But it's just, you know, it's over $1000 return. So, and that only gets you gets you from airport to airport. Then you have to consider everything else. So, it's just not feasible.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we just we just do uh online gathering, like on Skype or something. We could all get together and just talk. Yeah, I mean, um, I don't know if you've seen this uh language hour that I've been starting uh with uh the other Chris, Chris Huff, uh which is a Google Hangout every Sunday, where we talk about languages. You're more than welcome to join me. If you're, I mean, if you're available, it's on Sundays and it's at uh 8 p.m. uh CET, so that's about if you're in Texas, that will probably be something like six or seven hours before that. Uh so, around noon, 1 p.m. or something Sunday. Where you're more than welcome to uh to drop by.

Hmm. I could look it up.

It's a very casual setting. So, so when I say drop by, it's not kind of a, you know, it's not an interview. It's more of a we hang out and talk about languages. And if you just have a 15 minutes or whatever to to kill and you want to come on and say hi, just, you know, drop me a message and uh and I'll be sure to invite you.

Okay. That could be fun. Sounds good.

All right. So, with everything said, is there any last shout outs you want to give or where can people find you and learn more about you? Of course, all the links and the competition details and everything we talked about will be in the show notes, which you can find at actualfluency.com/04. But do you have any kind of interesting things going on right now that you want to talk about apart from the competition?

Well, um, I am building on my website what's called a Polyglot Hangout. And there's about 130 languages planned where you can just go and uh research different languages and or uh learn different languages and things like that with using all the knowledge and know-how that I can give. Right. Um, that that's about the major thing after the competition that uh I have going on right now. But Great. Otherwise, I'm just going around helping people speak to others around the world.

Yeah, and I just want to I just want to thank you for for doing that because I've we've been part of some of the same Facebook groups and and networks for for a week or or two, three weeks now and I always see you trying to help people and and I really appreciate that you take the time out of your day to, you know, inspire and help other people. So, thank you so much for that.

I do what I can.

Amazing. That's the that's the that's the only thing we can do at the end of the day. But Seán, it's been an absolute pleasure and I can talk to you all day, I'm sure. But I just want to thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and, you know, sharing your passion and your interest and your golden tips about how to be a better teacher and also a better learner in in the end of the day. So, thank you so much and and I'm sure we'll hang out at another time.

Hey, no problem. And thank you for having me on. It it's an honor.

Likewise. See you.

Okay. Thank you for listening to the actual fluency podcast. For more information, be sure to check out actualfluency.com. Until next time, enjoy learning and have a great day.