Michał Grześkowiak: Find and maintain motivation

Alright, everyone, we're back with another episode of the Actual Fluency podcast. And this week I can't do an introduction because I'm on my way to Budapest to do the Polyglot workshop and then I'll be relocating to Berlin. So, there's a lot of things going on. But obviously, the podcast must go on as well.

So, today I'm really excited to be joined by Michał Grześkowiak? Yes. Am I close? Not bad. You're you're close enough. Yeah. Cool. Me and Michał agreed that I I I didn't get any help with his name before the recording, so we could see a sort of genuine attempt of pronouncing a a nice Polish name. It's always. Yeah, it's always a challenge. So, Michał, how are you doing, man?

It's super easy for most of us to procrastinate, to put things off, and even to give up very quickly. If we don't have like very strong fundaments of why we do something, and then if we if we don't organize this this journey in the right way, in the right supportive way. So, let's focus on that today.

Okay. So, I finished the law school, but when I was in my fourth year at the university, I went for the exchange year to Germany. And it was a transforming year, transformational year for me, because I had like a mini world in one place. People from let's say 15 countries, and I was hearing all of these languages around me.

And I sell said to myself, um when we were finishing our theater show, which was part of the university course. And we did our play called Now or Never in German. And at the end of that show, um the students from 11 countries said, Now or Never, in 11 different languages.

And I remember um after that show, I was uh speaking with our tutor, and she told me, You cannot be a lawyer. And I said, I know. I know. You're right. Because uh and I think it was it was that moment when I decided, I have to do something that I'm passionate about, something with, you know, I I say, shining eyes, which is a very good metaphor for for a life with passion.

And but I didn't know what to do. I had no idea what to do. So, the only skills, I would say, I had at that time was English and German. So, I started teaching, started giving private classes basically. The the easiest possible form for a beginner.

But I also started getting interest in personal growth, reading many books, attending first seminars, and uh got interest in coaching, in um in training. And I started introducing into my work with people the elements of coaching, of uh working also not on the language itself, but on motivation, on the mindset, on um yeah, getting to know yourself better. These elements that in my opinion turn out to be very often more important than than the technical stuff itself.

And I like saying that uh the skill set without the mindset will only leave you upset. Yeah. Very very often we focus too much on the skill set. And I think the mindset should be should be always in the first place, and I think we can talk about this today because this is where motivation and consistency comes from. Um it's very rarely about the skills, about the the how, but um mindset should come in the first place.

Right. So, they're asking for the the how, basically. They're saying, is it Michel Thomas or is it uh Assimil or is it Teach Yourself, whereas you you it's probably better to look at the the motivational aspect and the how we can actually apply ourselves in that situation.

Because uh and they are constant reminders of our failure. Because the because this is exactly what happens. Because we focus on this, what is the best method? What is the best language book? And we just buy the book without even thinking if we can uh if we can keep the learning process. And uh yeah.

How can we start that at at the best possible foot? What's the mindset changes, or maybe mindset attitudes we need going into it?

We just do it because there is the mood to do it. There is a a positive emotion at the moment. So, we say, okay, I go for it. We get really excited, and the excitement is really high. But uh from uh pure logic, we can say that if the excitement, if this emotional high is really high, it's gonna fall down very very quickly.

And then I realized, well, I know what's gonna happen. I will order Japanese uh Teach Yourself. I will go through three, four lessons. I will put it on my shelf, and it will be a dust collector.

Right. Because I don't have any reason to study Japanese at the moment. So, I already know from my previous experiences, because I failed many times as well. I mean, right now, I have this um attitude that I have to know my why first. But in the previous years, I was making the same mistakes over and over again.

Right. So, so I'm not ordering anything. I'm gonna I'm gonna give this voucher to somebody else who needs a language course. Um because I don't want to be to collect, to have a list of languages, to collection of languages just for my ego. Right. Like like, I want to get to 10 languages, and I want to learn Japanese because it sounds good. It just doesn't work. Mhm.

Right. And there are four basic categories of these reasons. Mhm.

First is um the most typical for this language community, because we are mostly language enthusiasts. So, it's enjoyment. And just this natural curiosity. When you analyze most people who speak, let's say, more than 10 languages, they don't do it for for money anymore, because we don't have professions using more than 10 languages normally. And so, it's basically enjoyment, just out of curiosity. Um so, that's the first big reason.

The second is can can be culture. We get very interested in the culture, and language is a big part of it, and it lets us understand the culture and get to know all the aspects of it. The third one is professional. So, when someone uh needs to go to work, wants to work in an international company, for example, very big reason.

And the fourth one is probably the strongest. Uh personal. Especially falling in love. With with a foreigner and has been so far the the strongest reason I've found. Yeah. This this is what happened to my Spanish five years ago. And I say, relationship is gone, but my love for Spanish language is is still here.

Yeah. And yeah, like people uh start surprising themselves uh with uh how much they can learn and how fast when they fall in love. Right. So, why why don't you use this falling in love metaphor um for other aspects to like you don't have to fall in love with a person, but fall in love with, let's say, some aspect of the language or some aspect of the culture of a play or a place, um it will work miracles too.

And that's not a very strong why, but can you then figure out a strong why you know, that way? If you understand what I'm saying. Or is are they kind of doomed from the beginning if they don't have any strong whys?

Right. One girl at the workshop asked me, uh like, she said, I can motivate other people, it's not a problem, because she's also a teacher. But I cannot sustain my motivation for, I don't know, Russian or Italian. And I told her, not having the skill doesn't hurt you enough.

Right. And she said, well, yeah, you're you're right. Uh like, not having this skill at the moment is is not a problem for her. Right. Doesn't change your life.

So, so yeah, it's also um it's also a component of motivation. Uh this sort of pain of not having it. Right. Like if you're in the country, for instance, and everyday you're reminded how useless you are at Russian or whatever. Then that's a pain point that can be a powerful motivation if you're trying to learn Russian or whatever language that is. And also, English native speakers in uh in the US, in in the UK, usually don't speak foreign languages just

But I think one of the reasons that I haven't done a real go at it is because my life is sort of fine, you know, it doesn't hurt enough. I'm not 400 kilos, you know, I can still travel around. I'm quite mobile, you know, it doesn't hurt when I walk upstairs. It is that can that be a sort of a tangent to that what you're saying? There's not enough pain or discomfort or

Yeah. So, people have we've tried to give people some tips for starting out. Um does that What what are your positions on the traditional goal setting? Are you into the smart goals and or do you have any other sort of like, how should people set goals when they start out? And is it even important to set goals when you start out with a language learning project?

So, first we are talking about this why, this four different types of reasons. But then we should also define of what exactly is it that we want to learn based on that why. So, for example, when it comes to a language, any language, I want to learn a language is is just so unclear, then we we can also get stuck in our motivation, because we don't know what to do exactly. We don't know what to focus on.

All right, yeah. So, we will be making mistakes of wasting our time and energy, and getting frustrated. So, definitely, we look at the language, what level do I want to be in. And then there is some space for coaching questions like, how will you know you have this level? How will you how will you recognize you have this level? Uh what will you be able to express, how how much of uh how many percent percent of the text will you be able to understand. So, so being very specific always helps.

Um but what can people do, you know, now we talked about how people can get started really well. And I think a lot of people have these ideas about getting started, and I guess it's part of this excitement phase as well that you said you set goals, you, you know, it's like when you when you want to start running, you go out and buy all the gear, you read all on the guides, you get all the apps, you know, you prepare yourself in quite a good way.

And then as you say, there's a point where you just you almost tank, and then you just give up, and then all the running equipment is in your cupboard, and you never take it out again. So, what can people do when they feel like that maybe not when they're in the hole, but they can see the the hole or a wall approaching, they're like getting a little bit frustrated maybe with lack of process progress, or I don't know what, you know, there are lots of ways people can get frustrated along the way. But what can you do when you when you're on your way and you feel a a problem coming?

Just be realistic about it. Just look that uh we uh we have seasons in the year. We we human beings also have seasons when we have more energy, less energy. Uh so, lower your insanely high expectations that you have that learning process will be a straight line going going right up.

Because we may see big a big progress in the beginning when we have some focused work. But uh any learning curve, any learning process is built on um the the periods of plateau, for example. Right. Where you don't feel any Yeah, for some time, you you study, you practice, but you don't see any progress, any sort of progress for weeks sometimes, sometimes for months.

You don't realize you're not growing. But if you're prepared for that consciously, because you you are not expecting progress all the time, and you know that plateau is a progress actually, but in a long-term perspective. Plateau is necessary for you. Right. Then then that also that pressure is off. So, you can go on, you can continue, knowing that it's taking you to the right place.

Just because you don't feel like you're better in an iTalki lesson a week after the other one, even though you studied all week, doesn't mean that something hasn't happened in your Russian or German or whatever knowledge in the long-term memory or in your, you know, brain. Uh it can just feel that way sometimes, like you're completely stagnated.

But every time I've felt that way, I've always come back later with even more. So, like uh that would be my little uh insight there that plateaus are not really plateaus. They're not definitely not failures if you don't improve in a week or a month or whatever period of time you choose.

Right. Because even even if you write a bad article, so that can be a reference to our plateau. So, theoretically, you're not making progress. Like, let's say, suddenly you're you're writing the the article that is worse quality than the previous one, you're still improving, you're still learning. So, you're still practicing.

Right. Even at that moment, it doesn't seem like that. So, be ready to create a lot of crap. So also be ready to um give up the idea of seeing progress every every week, especially in um after a few months, when you you had that big progress, but it's not already like the beginning phase.

Yeah. I don't make mistakes. I do mistakes.

Right. Yeah, it's a great thing. And like I think I've talk talked about this before on the podcast, but I was so afraid of making mistakes that I would just think out a sentence in my head, and then I would type it into Google Translate. And I know that's not a perfect method, but if it gave me the uh you know, no suggestions, then I would send it. And it's of course completely mad, and it meant that I only said things that I was somewhat sure about. But that's not how you that's not how you grow.

I mean, particularly not when you're with a tutor who can tell you that that's not how you grow fast. Right. That's like that it would have taken me 10 years to start speaking then in Russian, because it's such a hard language for me, that um just the I don't know how the change happened. I guess I just heard it enough times. You know, make mistakes. That one tutoring session, I was just like, you know, fuck it. I'm just gonna say whatever I think is right, and not hesitate too much. Because I think one of the things when I heard is like, when you hesitate, you're more likely to make mistakes than if you just say whatever comes to your mind. I don't know if that's a bit of a myth, but um yeah, I'd say make lots of mistakes when possible, or do mistakes like Michael says like, you know, do it consciously.

Yeah. So we should be really um careful about that. Because this is what happens very often at schools, unfortunately. Um in traditional courses, focusing on on what tense should I use, is it correct? Are they gonna laugh at me if I say this?

Uh so, also big part of um working on effective language acquisition is letting go of all of this unnecessary pressure.

Yeah. Yeah, it's always good to to do, and what do you think about is it a good thing to follow a lot of the super successful hyper polyglots when you start out? Or is it like is does it have diminishing effects or uh detrimental effects to to look at someone speak like 20 languages effortlessly?

But still, the inspiration, and yeah, the element of um supporting environment as well. Because that's the Polyglot community, like, the gathering, the conference, the Facebook groups. And it's very common because most people I asked in in Berlin, let's say, some of them go there for for knowledge. But most of them were saying, I'm here to hang out with people who are at the same, let's say, energy level, the same passion. And just spending time in this environment that is totally supportive is is the biggest advantage. It's the biggest power.

Um and and this is also the element supporting us in any long-term, long-run activity, like language learning. So, Right. Moving now to this consistency and long-term endurance, uh environment should be one of um the basic elements we should remember about.

Is our environment supporting us? Because look at the difference. If you um let's say you have uh flatmates, and none of them uh speaks a foreign language, none of them studies, none of them is interested in language. How motivated, energized do you feel to to to keep your journey in becoming a polyglot or a hyperpolyglot?

And now the second scenario, you share a flat only with polyglots from from different countries. So, that everyday, let's say, you go to the kitchen, you speak Portuguese in the kitchen. Uh you you cook together, you you say you speak in Italian. And you see them progressing, and you see them uh I don't know, singing songs in Chinese. Uh how does that affect your your language learning activity?

So, are there any are there any other things that people can do in to stay consistent? Because I know that a lot of people set set goals. They say like, I'm gonna study for 30 minutes, four times a week. And they might do that for the first two, three weeks, and then they sort of fall fall out of it, and they start studying sort of randomly and sporadically.

So, how how can you stay on track with your goals at all times and avoid because assuming people have been realistic with the goals to start out with. How can we stick to yeah, I guess stick to it. How how do we stick to what we've set out to do?

After one week, he's coming back to me. You were right. And it's very common for us that we want to start really big just to show ourselves, yeah, of course, we can.

But what is much more effective in the long run is to start really really small, start start from five minutes, 10 minutes, a few sentences, but just focus on consistency first. Just create the habit of consistency. And most people give up after these two, three weeks because habit has not been created. And uh okay.

Habits are the um key elements of consistency, because if we don't have them, our actions depend on our willpower. And the willpower, being like a muscle, is um is limited. It's limited. When you exercise at the gym and you train one muscle, there is a point of so-called failure of the muscle. You cannot move it, it cannot stress anymore at that moment. So, it's limited um amount of power.

And it's the same with our willpower. If we want to study a new language and we use our willpower to that, at some point, uh let's say, we are tired, we are stressed out, uh someone visited us, distracted us. It's gone. Uh we just don't have more willpower to study a language that day.

And and the chain is broken, and and it's just gone. So, instead of that, just focus on creating the habit, uh which is automatic. So, that you don't even have to think about it, don't don't have to remember about it, and don't have to be motivated to do it. The habit is something that doesn't depend on your mood. It only depends on the on the reminder, the activator that happens.

And what is also the third element of the habit is the reward, which is which is essential, especially in the beginning, just to show yourself that you've done a good job. Um so, you can give yourself a tap in the back saying, good job. Good job, Kris. After having that one lesson of Assimil with your morning coffee.

Um what science shows, with time, we don't need external rewards, uh but just a feeling of satisfaction is enough. Right. And you'll definitely get that from studying most textbooks, anyway. Yeah. Because when you finish a chapter or something. You definitely get it.

In the beginning, we should uh strengthen that with some form of reward, uh that is uh pleasant, relaxing, and has no side effects. Very important. Because if you if you have a lesson of Assimil, and then you have three bars of chocolate as a reward, Right. You will you will surely create a habit, but you also grow uh grow a stomach, you know. So, that's a bad idea.

So, I would uh sit down and brainstorm what habits um can you create to support your language learning?

I have this habit of when I leave my flat, uh I immediately put my headphones, uh and I just click, because I have this headphones with a with a click from from the iPhone, and the audiobook in a foreign language is already there.

Oh. Um so, it happens like automatically now. I don't have to remember about it. Always have this headphones. It's just uh you know, having the the input, the listening practice is just one click away.

Right. And then you make sure to have a realistic task, and you can build on that later, of course, but the habit itself, once you've finished it, you give yourself some kind of a reward like a, I did it. Yeah. Realistic, realistic task, really small in the beginning. Just to create consistency.

Right. Because you can always grow that. I mean, when I was talking to Benny a few weeks ago, and we were talking about how to do language learning at the sort of basic level. If you're not feeling like getting out of bed, or you're sick, or depressed, or whatever. And he said, well, if you just set the task of opening the textbook, that's your goal. I mean, you'd be very very, you know, I mean, you'd be pretty bad off if you don't just take at least a few pages on. And then the next time you do it, you might read a chapter. And then you might do that for a long time, and then suddenly, hey, I I'm actually I feel like doing two today, you know. Uh but the routine is is the one we're talking about here. It's more important than what you do in the routine, sort of.

As long as you do it everyday, or whatever, every other day could be as well. Uh I I think everyday is good, but I can understand for some people, if you have a family, or two jobs and stuff, it might be stressful.

But uh that's that's really awesome. And that's some things that I've when I look back at my language journey the last year and a half, could bet definitely have benefited a bit from some routine creation and uh more uh yeah, I guess a stronger why as well. Like we talked about in the beginning. Something that might also have spend a little time in the beginning. It's like an investment of time for the whole experience to be better.

I think that's a good idea. So, um yeah, it's one of my favorite topics as well. This motivation and self-improvement and uh how we can how we can be better versions of ourselves everyday. And it's amazing how this these things that we talked about today applies to everything. Like from fitness to careers, to even relationships, uh health, uh even if you play golf, you know. I'm sure that you can take away some of these things on how to work on your game or how to have a better maybe go into the game with a stronger why, and, you know, do you want to be the next Tiger Woods, or do you just want to be the best in your local club?

Right. And that's what we're trying to do here with the encouragement is to give better conditions for people to create the consistency that gives the results. Because you can learn a language in almost no time if you can master the art of consistency, right? That's awesome.

But I just want to thank you for coming on and providing so many hands-on tips. You know, I literally took like a page of notes here, and I hope that people at home did the same, because it's rare that we get sort of I mean, you can really tell that you're into also coaching, because you did a great coaching session here. Um sort of a general one for that applies to many people.

Um and I hope that people out there enjoyed it as well. And if they have uh you know, any questions on the matter, I'm sure that you'd be happy to uh jump in and and answer on the thread. So, um so thank you so much, and I look forward to seeing you somewhere in the world, uh maybe I I love to come to Poland one day. It's been on my list for a long time.