Aviva Levin: Coincidental French Teacher in British Colombia
Kris Broholm welcomes Aviva Levin, a teacher who unexpectedly started teaching French in British Columbia despite limited prior skills. They discuss her journey into language instruction, methods for engaging students, and the unique dynamics of French learning across Canada, including textbook choices.
January 31, 2019 · 46 min
EP 143: Aviva Levin: Coincidental French Teacher in British Colombia
0:00 / 46:08
Guest
Aviva Levin
What You'll Hear
- 1 Accidental French Teacher: Aviva's Journey Begins
- 2 Canada's French Divide: East vs. West
- 3 Teacher Autonomy: Crafting Engaging French Curriculum
- 4 Embracing Quebecois French & Linguistic Identity
- 5 Engaging Teens: Interests, Blogs, and Improv
- 6 Creating Safe Spaces for Language Learners
- 7 Personal Growth & Project: Diverse French Books
- 8 Diploma Insights: Teaching Students, Not Just French
Links Mentioned
Questions Covered in the Show
How is French taught in Western Canada's public schools?- 5m
What autonomy do language teachers have in curriculum design in British Columbia?- 10m
What are the challenges or risks of extensive teacher autonomy in language education?- 12m
What type of French is taught in Canadian schools, specifically in British Columbia?- 16m
What are effective strategies for engaging high school students in French language learning?- 24m
What were the key takeaways from a diploma in language and literacy education for a language teacher?- 38m
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Hey everyone, episode 143 of the actual fluency podcast here. Imagine you're you're applying for a job, but the person responsible for the recruitment says, we're going to employ someone who can also do language teaching. And uh, that's exactly what our guest today, Aviva Lovin, uh, experienced. He was applying to be a teacher at a school, and the uh, person responsible for the recruitment basically said, we need someone who can also teach French.
And with limited language skill, limited French skills, Aviva jumped straight into it, and she shares her experience in this show. We also talk about general teaching methods, ways you can make your classroom teaching more interesting, how to engage the kids in a better way so they learn more. And we also talk a little bit about the language dynamics of Canada, how uh, you've got English and French, and the differences between that and also whether Quebecois French or French French textbooks are being used in the classroom, which I didn't know. So, um, I hope you find this interesting. And we're just going to get straight into it.
So, my name's Aviva Lovin, and I am a high school teacher, uh, originally from Richmond, British Columbia, which is a suburb of Vancouver BC in Canada. And, uh, I've been a language teacher since, well, that's a story I'll go into, but I've been a teacher, uh, since 2009.
Um, and the, the story that, uh, we talked about a little bit before, uh, is, is very much like my, my journey into becoming a language teacher, which was not my intent when I set out. Um, I trained as a history teacher. Um, and then when I was new in my career, I had a principal come to me and say, I see that you've applied for this job as a history teacher. And we have an opening, quite a few people have applied, and we're going to give the job to whomever can also teach one class of introductory French.
That's awesome.
And, uh, and she's like, we're going to give it to, to the person with the most qualifications. And so I said, well, you know, I'm, I'm not super qualified, but, you know, French was my most excellent subject in high school, it was not. Um, and, you know, I'd love to teach it, and I had one more credit at university than the other applicants.
Right.
So they gave me the job.
Fantastic. And how was your, uh, how was your own school with, with languages? Uh, I know, uh, French isn't as, uh, popular in the West, if I can use that word, as it is in the East, but did you, did you have any language class growing up or how, how was your personal relationship to, to that kind of subject?
Well, so, um, you're absolutely right. In Eastern Canada, where we have, um, Quebec and the provinces that are adjacent to it, as well as New Brunswick, our only bilingual province, um, language learning of French starts at the very beginning. Um, but the further out West you get, the more and more delayed it becomes.
Um, and so my experience was very similar to what my students' experience was, which was a smattering of French at the elementary level, um, and by smattering, I mean, the teacher puts on a video called "Je Suis Une Pizza," and the kids sing along to it. I, I highly recommend the song, it's excellent. Um, but not very educational.
Uh, and then in grade eight, which is when high school starts, at least in our district, that's when you have sort of square one basics, and then you can choose to take it up to grade 12, but you have to take a language. So for some students in British Columbia, they take French for one year, and then they switch to Spanish or Japanese or Chinese or any other languages that are offered.
Um, and so I kept, kept going all the way through to grade 12, um, and then took a couple courses at the university level, which fortunately got me the job. Um, but it, it was very much like the academic, my reading was much better than anything else. Lots of worksheets, that kind of thing.
Hmm. Yeah, it's a hot topic, the, the language, uh, institutions. I, I had a chat with, I, I was in Montreal a few years ago and we were talking a little bit about how hard it is actually to have a multilingual country, uh, and, and Canada's not even, you know, that great of an example of one, but, but certainly if you, as you mentioned, if you go East, you, you see it a lot more.
And even over there, they, they're kind of confused in a way sometimes. They've got some personality splitting going on where English is a little bit more, I don't know if I want to say trendy or it's a little bit more, uh, cool, maybe the younger people are maybe a little bit more attached to it. And then you've got the older generation trying to kind of maintain that French and, and really keep it going. Uh, so it's interesting to hear how that, uh, how that is over on, on the, the West, west side.
And that sounds, I mean, that, to me that sounds almost like you're not getting any French knowledge if you just do the minimum. Like how much could you even get if you only start at grade eight and you only have to do a year. I mean, you'd get absolutely nowhere, I'd imagine.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely a problem, and it recently, well not so recently, popped up, um, when there was like a, so all government communication is technically supposed to be in both English and French. But apparently one, um, government agency in BC was just referring people to copy and paste and then Google Translate. Um, because they didn't have any qualified translators.
Um, and I've seen like some funny internet memes where, um, because everything needs to be labeled bilingually, like your cereal boxes to your medicine, everything. Um, to be able to sell in Canada, I've seen like internet photos where someone just wrote French, French, French, French, French, French, French. And I hope that, I guess it got filled in later and just nobody remembered to do that.
Oops.
Well, um, so, and, and the other hot topic as well, I guess we should just mention is, is the language instruction itself. You know, uh, a lot of people that I talk to have absolute miserable experiences in, in, in language school, in, in the, uh, let's say primary and high school.
So, maybe you can share a little bit as a teacher how, how, how is the, how is the task even presented to you? What, what's the first you hear of it? Let's say you're signing to teach French. Are you given a syllabus you have to go through? Is it very rigid? Can you, how much say do you have in it? And, and how can you make it interesting as a, as a teacher?
Yeah, so, um, I, I'm very fortunate as a teacher in BC in that we have a lot of autonomy as teachers in our curriculum. Like there's learning outcomes that we need to meet, um, but they're, they're fairly vague and we can meet them in a variety of ways.
So, um, I was able to, for instance, um, in like my senior curriculum create all my own units. Um, and so basically what I do is I do units on things that are of interest to me, um, and that I know that I'm going to enjoy talking about and enjoy doing and then I'm going to enjoy marking because as a teacher, we often hate marking, um, but my goal has always been for myself to create projects that I'm actually looking forward to mark.
Um, so like for example, one of my units ends, like have you ever done those murder mystery dinners where you like have to figure out, kind of it's almost like an escape room with a bunch of clues, and you have to pierce it all together, interrogate the suspects, figure out who, who did it.
I played the game, uh, Clue. That's probably the closest I get.
So, um, yeah, there, it was quite a trend for a while, uh, in Vancouver. Like a lot of these kind of escape rooms, um, with these like mysteries, and I've gone to a couple murder mystery dinners. So, like one of the end projects that I do is that they have, the groups need to put on like this murder mystery, and then we as a class like interrogate them, so using our questions, um, and figure out who the, the murderer or the robber or whatever is. Um, which I love doing. Like I look forward to those days very much where, uh, marking tests I do not look forward to as much.
Right. Is, is there a, a risk with the autonomy that you have, let's say maybe less passionate teachers or maybe just bad teachers, uh, who might just kind of not do as good as, as the teachers who are passionate about it? I mean, that, that'll happen even with the syllabus, I suppose, but is it, it's the, is there such a thing as too much autonomy, do you think? Or, uh, in what ways are, are your personal, let's say, uh, modules and projects and stuff evaluated on a, on an academic level? Is it purely the, the results that the students get, so as long as you have a certain average or a certain, uh, exam result, you're, you're assumed to be doing well? Or is each component or the, what you produce actually looked at by a third party in, in any way?
Um, so both excellent questions, and I'll kind of speak to, to one and then the other. Um, in terms of the autonomy, like absolutely. Um, it can, it can create some, uh, difficult learning situations. And that's actually the problem that I was in, um, my first year teaching, so I get this class of, of grade eight beginner French students, and I, and I asked, um, you know, where is the, where's the syllabus? What am I supposed to teach? And, um, they're like, well, we ordered some intro books, like we've ordered a program, and schools will often do that, where they choose like a specific program that they follow in the junior grades. Um, but they're like, it hasn't arrived yet, just do what you want to do.
What?
And I was like, okay. Um, and so what I did, the first thing I did is I went to my, my former French high school teacher's classroom, and I said, help me. Help me, Madame Lovin. And so she kind of gave me an outline of what she did and like the learning outcomes and, uh, that she was looking for and some examples, and then it was just a lot of Googling.
Um, I use actually, I use, and I still use and I put my own stuff up on a a UK site called TES, um, where like language and other curriculum is set up, um, and our, like the BC and it seems like the UK, uh, outcomes are very closely aligned. Um, and yeah, it was, I was pretty much a day ahead of the kids. Like they'd be like, what are we doing tomorrow, Madame Lovin? And I'd be like, it's a surprise. And then my head I'd be like, to me too.
Yeah, I can imagine that must have been quite the, the ride. So, yeah, what can you even do in that scenario? That's pretty funny that the materials hadn't even arrived.
It, it was definitely like, I think an unusual situation that they were in, where the person that they had hired, um, left like just before the beginning of the school year, and so there was a lot of confusion. Um, but yeah, it was, it was an interesting time for me. Fortunately, grade eight, they're 13. No one really questions too much. They're not, they're getting used to high school, so they didn't really know that like maybe my panicked looks weren't normal for high school teachers.
Um, and then, but I will say, and I guess this kind of goes into my journey. So, I can save this for later. Um, by the end of it, I was like, okay, I don't think I did a great job this year, but I loved being a language teacher, and I need to figure out how to do this right.
Right. So, that was the ambition, the, the drive to kind of keep growing as well.
Yeah. Um, and so I eventually, uh, did, uh, several like immersion opportunities, as well as I went back to university and got like a post-bac diploma on language teaching. So, I could finally figure out what I was doing.
Well, I'd like to ask you a little bit about that, but just before, uh, just rounding up the, the high school, the materials you use, uh, I had a talk with someone recently about this, is it, um, do you have, like what kind of French do you teach in America, basically, is my question.
So, that's a question that we get asked a lot. Um, and my, I know that people want me to say like, Parisian, Quebecois, Haitian. But really the answer is beginner. Like if you're creating French sentences and you feel confident doing it, I don't care if you're using slang from anywhere in the world, or, you know, you, you're doing a great job.
Um, but for, for me, because I'd done my language learning, um, as an adult in, in Quebec, um, I definitely have a tendency to, I think, I've been told that my accent is a little bit more Quebecois. Um, and then, you know, that's where I'm going to go for resources because I want to keep it local to being Canadian.
Um, because our history is, is one of a bilingual country, you know, the English fought the French. The English won, um, but one of the concessions was that the French language would be kept alive in the country. And so although it's created a lot of cultural confusion, um, I do think that as a Canadian teacher, that has been, you know, my goal is to honor that.
Um, but that being said, we spend a lot of time, uh, especially in the older grades, like listening to videos and podcasts of all sorts of different French and even like some Louisiana, like Cajun, Creole kind of stuff and comparing the accents. Um, so in terms of like idioms, I'm, I'm mostly introducing, um, Quebecois idioms. Um, and we want to,
That's good to hear. Yeah. That's good to hear. And, and the books, do you are the like the courses you mentioned, the course, is that a specific Quebecois course or is it just a general one, if that's such a thing that exists?
Yeah, so the one that, um, we, in my school we used and quite a few, um, schools in BC use, it's called Communicate, and that actually is locally developed like Canadian for BC level French.
Fantastic. That's good. Fantastic. I heard some stories over in, uh, when I was in Montreal that it was fairly recent that they started using actual Quebecois textbooks. So they would use, you know, French, uh, France French, uh, textbooks in the classrooms and then everyone would leave the classroom and speak their normal, you know, spoken dialect or spoken version.
Um, but it's good to hear that at least that's not happening, uh, in your school. It's, I think it's important, uh, definitely. It's a cultural heritage, it's, it's about identity for sure. And it's also about unity, I guess, as a country. You know, you kind of in it together, so you need to have experience and knowledge of of both languages to, to be part of the, the country, I think.
Absolutely. And I think that there's just in language in general, there in the last decade, there's been a lot of examination around our own biases and privileging. Um, you know, this, this idea that for some reason, uh, French from France, French is better French than Quebecois French, which is absolutely not true, you know, we're realizing it's just a different way of speaking, the same way that I think more and more linguists are accepting that for instance, uh, like African American dialects of speaking English are just as valid, just as grammatical, um, as your received pronunciation. Um, and so I think as we recognize more groups and more identities, I think we're becoming more accepting of language.
Yeah, I think that's definitely true. And, and hopefully it'll, there'll be, it'll continue to, to grow in, in popularity, so English doesn't, uh, completely take over, which has happened other places, I guess.
Um, I was thinking also with the high school, so you said grade eight, they're about 13 and then they can have it for up to four more years or three more years total. Um, what kind of, what have you seen to be really effective with learners of these ages? Um, maybe you can compare a little bit with your own experiences, but like if there's any language teachers out there who might be struggling, because I can imagine 13, yeah, they're probably a little bit young, but as they get not much older, they, you've got the trouble teen starting, right? So, so I don't know if you have any, uh, tips or tricks for, for any aspiring or current language teachers on on how you can, I guess the point is about how to make them learn really and, and not, uh, go crazy in the classroom with, uh, all sorts of other things.
Absolutely. Um, you know, that's something that I struggle with, but definitely I have some tricks up my sleeve. Um, I'd say first and foremost is just appealing to what they're interested in. So, like depending on what the major thing of the day is, whether it's like used to be Justin Bieber, and then it was One Direction, um, you're wanting to direct the resources there.
Um, and I find too that channeling them into those passions to find something on their own. So, we used to have a lot of, for instance, like class novels that everyone would read together. Um, and I've recently transitioned right out of that because there's not a lot of novels that are going to appeal to everybody.
Um, and done a lot of work around students exploring blogs. So, the idea being, you know, you if you can find a blog about something you care about, whether it's cars or, you know, cryptozoology or music, and you can show it to me and I can see that it's in French and it's not, um, written by someone who isn't completely awful with a lot of swear words in it, um, then that's going to be your reading material for this week. Um, because you're only going to read what you want to find out about. And, and that goes for English as well as any language that you're learning.
Um, so doing a lot more individualized learning, I think it, it's important. Um, like I do genius hour projects with my students where they choose like an inquiry question at the beginning of their senior year, and then rather than do a big exit exam like we used to have with like a 100 multiple choices and an essay, they're presenting on the results of that inquiry question, um, in a, in a kind of like science fairy collaborative, collaborative way. Um, so the, you know, you're sparking that inspiration, it's something they actually want to go home and do. Um, so that I think's important.
Um, the other thing that I do a lot of is improv in the classroom. Um, I come from like an improv theater background myself, and to me, like when I was in high school, a lot of any speaking was memorized dialogue, like, do you have a banana? Yes, I have a banana. How much is your banana? My banana is a dollar. And then as I was recreating that in my own classroom, the question struck me is like, what happens if my students go to Quebec, and there's no bananas.
Right.
Nobody's going to know what to do. Because like conversation is never in real life scripted. No one ever takes out a dictionary unless, you know, you're really struggling for that word. So, how can I recreate artificially an actual conversation.
Um, so I started incorporating a ton of improv. Um, and so what it looks like is, you know, in some cases they're just picking prompts out of a hat, and then they have to make a, like a little skit around it, and it's like, okay, you've got 20 minutes and then you present. Or sometimes it's more structured to, okay, you're in a restaurant, and you encounter a problem. You guys need to figure it out. And they can't have their phones, they can't have a dictionary. They just need to spend a little bit of time planning, and then they just go.
Um, and at first they're petrified, and I've talked, I've done some pro-D with other teachers, and they're like, oh, no, the students would never do that. I'm like, no, no, no. You tell them that the first time's going to suck, and it does. And then you just keep doing it, and by the end you are going to be blown away with what your students can show you.
And I actually noticed that with the improv, their grammar improved a lot. Because again, I was making it relevant. Instead of like teaching a lesson on the anterior past, while they're prepping their scenes, they come to me and be like, Madame Lovin, I want to be able to say blank, how do I do that? I do a little mini lesson on the whiteboard for just the three kids that wanted to know. And then they'd always remember it because they were the ones that generated the interest in that grammar.
Right. And I can imagine how that must be a, a totally different classroom experience. You know, making it fun and, and, uh, interactive is kind of the opposite of what most people would connect a classroom to.
And then, yeah, the, the last thing I think that is the most important, because being a teenager is such a vulnerable time, um, is creating like a really safe community in the classroom.
Um, and so that can be done like in, in little ways. Like, for instance, I never jump in and correct my students when they're speaking. Um, that's something that was done to me, and it just made me never want to open my mouth. Um, and so students get a chance to just speak freely. And then if I'm noticing certain errors that are consistent, like, oh, I'm hearing a lot of S's being pronounced at the end of words. We'll do like a mini summary where I'm like, okay, that was a really good set of scenes. I just want to go over a quick couple grammatical things. Um, but I'll never individually pinpoint student errors, um, and make them feel like they have been, you know, because for a teenager, something simple like, uh, actually it's pronounced without the S, becomes, oh my God, my teacher hates me. Everyone's laughing at me. I'm never going to do this correctly. I'm just never going to take this class again in my life.
Yeah, you can quickly take it personally, even though there's no reason for that to happen, because nobody knows anything at age 13, so, yeah.
Yeah.
But, yeah, that's how they think for sure.
I, I once had a, had a teacher tell me, um, we had been analyzing, uh, and this was me as an adult, um, we had been analyzing a poem in, in French, and I had, you know, this idea about what, like, what it might actually mean, but I didn't exactly have the vocabulary for like literary analysis. And the, and the prof in in front of the whole class told me, you know, until you can properly express what you want to express, you shouldn't raise your hand.
That's pretty rough.
Yeah, that feeling for me as like a 25-year-old, I was like, I can't even imagine how a 15-year-old would feel, like I'm never going to make any student feel like that.
Yeah, and that's horrible. Nobody should feel like that.
Yeah.
Um, so, how did, um, going, just going back to the beginning of the story, where you getting this job, uh, how do you, what's the strategy there when you, when you know that, okay, I'm not a genius in this language or this subject in any way. Of course, the people you're teaching are, you know, even worse.
Yes.
But, but, you know, so it's a, it's a bit of a case of the, the blind leading the blind, but how did you organize yourself in the beginning and, and what, so, I guess this is a transition into you becoming suddenly a, uh, an independent learner and, and taking that challenge on, but what was going through your mind and, and how did you start, start that job?
Well, the first thing I did was call my dad. Um, and my, my dad is an is an interesting person. He, um, he did a masters in linguistics and it, is like a hyper polyglot. At one point he was able to converse almost fluently in 10 languages. He's the kind of guy that you can like drop into, you know, a remote island and within three days he's got the grammar figured out and he's speaking it. Um, I unfortunately did not inherit that. I wish that I did.
Um, and so I called him and I said, oh no, and he's like, oh no. And so we had a kind of quick conversation about, um, I was like, okay, and he his job was basically to just like pump me up and be like, well, if anything, you've got enthusiasm.
That's good.
I was like, thanks, Dad. Um, but it was funny, like, now that I say that, because one of the best compliments that I've ever gotten, kind of indirectly as a teacher, was I once had a colleague come in to my room, and she'd be like, oh my God, guess what I overheard in my classroom. There was this kid Josh, and he, you know, because teachers we totally eavesdrop on our students all the time. And if you talk about a teacher, we're totally going to them and being like, guess what the student's my class said about you. And she's like, it was, um, student, and he was talking to his friend about a French test that he has coming up, and he said, you know, I don't really like this class, I'm not that great at it, but man, Ms. Lovin loves teaching it so much, I need to get a good grade so that she can see that it's worth it.
That's fantastic.
And I was like, that's the best compliment. That obviously my enthusiasm has stayed going through.
Um, and so I set out with basically, okay, what is the very basics that I want the students to know when they, they leave? So I went and grabbed somebody's, um, syllabus for the next grade and be like, okay, well they need, these are the things that they need to know before they can get to do what the grade nine teacher wants them to be able to do.
Um, and then I just started, like I said, doing a lot of Googling. It came back a lot quicker than I thought it. Like although it was, I wasn't a stellar, uh, French student in high school and university. Like the more complex stuff did come back to me fairly quickly. Um, and, you know, there was a lot of, well, that's a fantastic question, Billy, why don't we find out together?
Ha ha ha.
Pretending that, you know, like I'm modeling researching questions when in reality I'm like, I don't know, let's find out.
Right.
Um, and, and that actually, I think, is, is something that I, I still do even when I do know the answer now. So, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was when I was doing it back then. Um, and honestly, it was a lot of asking the kids like, hey, what are you interested, what do you want to learn about? And then just scrambling to, to, to fill in those gaps.
Feel that gap. But I guess as the, as you got more experience and you had more and more, what can you call them, years, you know, you the, you could build up sort of a, uh, a routine and an arsenal you could, you could use going forward, so it wasn't as scrambly every time.
Absolutely. And in fact, now I've got the opposite problem, where I've got so many resources that it's having to like, which, which one of my babies that I worked on hundreds of hours, do I eliminate?
Yeah. I can imagine that that's not always fun.
No.
But the, is the instructional language English or, or do you try to speak as much as possible in the, in the class? Or is that depending on what year?
That's something that I've gone back and forth on a lot and talked to a lot of language teachers about. And it really comes down to to the class. Um, obviously beginners, um, you know, there's going to be a lot more English, especially in the beginning, just because you again, they're a lot of they're fresh into high school, you don't want to for them to panic.
Um, and then more and more and more as, as the grades go up. One thing that I do promise my students at the beginning of every semester is that I will never explain a grammatical concept that is new to you in French.
Right.
Because it's like this just a double punishment because not only do you not understand what I'm saying, now you're losing out on the the learning to understand what I'm going to be saying tomorrow.
Yeah, that's, that's a bit rough. I remember doing some German at university and, yeah, having German grammar explained in German was very, yeah.
Yeah.
That was uphill.
I know.
It was, or downhill. I, I never know how to use that metaphor anymore. I feel like it's rough. Like uphill, yeah, it's really tough and then downhill is really easy, but then again, downhill is also,
You end up at the in the mud pit.
Yeah, the chasm or something. Yeah. So, so tell me how, how that experience kind of, I mean, you've already shared quite a bit of it, but how did, how's your, do you have any future language projects lined up or do you want to, you know, be, uh, a bit like your dad, learn 10 languages? Or what is, what's the future hold for, for you?
So, for me, um, I definitely, like my own learning and and improving is definitely a priority. Um, I'm, you know, trying to read and speak. I go to like a a meet up kind of language cafe once a week to, um, speak French and and keep that from going rusty. Um, and having the chance to talk to adults, because talking with kids all the time is super fun, but your own learning doesn't exactly increase.
Um, and actually, one of the things that I'm really passionate about and that I'm, I'm trying to work on on the side is, uh, a book for students that is relevant to their age group. Um, but still linguistically relevant as well, because often what happens is the, the books that they're able to read are about like the three, three bears and Goldilocks. Um, but that's not where their interest is.
Um, and but then when they want to read about like young people like them, they just can't because of the language barrier, at least in the West. In Ontario, they're reading Harry Potter and they're fine. Um, and so I personally, my, my little private project is trying to make a resource that is relevant for students to read, fun for them to read, but that they can also feel confident in reading because it's to their language ability.
Yeah, that sounds like a great idea. You just I guess you just have to be ready to update it quite frequently, because the fads change all the time.
I know, it's crazy.
Like a year ago, I don't think people knew what Fortnite was, for instance.
Yeah.
10 years ago nobody knew what a fidget spinner was or, you know, when I was, when I was in school, it was all about Pokémon and, uh, all these collectible stickers and Dragon Heads and whatnot. And, you know, obviously nobody talks about those anymore. Or maybe they resurface, I don't know.
Yeah, and I think for me the, oh sorry.
No, go ahead.
I, I think for me the relevance also comes in like social relevance. So, for instance, in all of our, um, materials, we don't have a very diverse and representative group of of young people in necessarily in the textbooks or in the, um, educational novels. So, you know, I actually, I remember, um, being handed a stack of books, and I like read the first page, and it was like, Susie is pretty thin and blonde. She has a boyfriend. Um, and I was like, and nope. Like, I'm not giving this to my students. So, trying to, you know, make it so that our LGBTQ students feel like they're being represented, our, our students of color, even like students with different abilities, rather than just this very standard language learner that everyone seems to think exists that is white and privileged and just exists in our textbooks.
Hmm. Yeah, it's, it's all important and, and I think that learning is just better if it, if it feels more realistic or more applicable to the, to the students.
Yeah, like I, I went and I just out of curiosity, I went and looked at, um, I built up quite the novel collection over the years, either through, um, some federal funding, as well as just going to like thrift stores and, and buying as many used books as I can. And out of the like 200 plus books I had, I realized I only had four protagonists of color, which is just not representative of who our students are.
Right. Yeah, that's a big, big, uh, I don't know, revolution coming in terms of the materials, definitely. And I think the, the way we can introduce materials now also with online courses or tablets, really allows for a much more dynamic picture of society instead of this, you know, very static and, and almost boring in a way because you can't, like you couldn't write a book 20 years ago with the most current video game or something, because that will be outdated two months later or five months later.
But if you have a, if you had a an online platform or dynamic platform, you could basically make a blog post sort of every month for the students to read that will be new, in line with their interest, featuring people that they can recognize as, as, uh, oh, that sounds like me or that feels like me or that's a situation I could be in, rather than what you mentioned before, you know, Susie and, like generic, generic characters in in, in these books, because I, I really think that a big key to to success in in children's language learning is really about just making it fun, which you're doing a great job with, it sounds like. And the materials obviously have to be, be there as well. It's almost better to me to not use any materials, uh, if, if it has to be those generic ones. I'd rather just do, you know, interactive and almost improv, like you mentioned, uh, then, then these old dusty textbooks. I just remember that.
Yeah.
Because,
Yeah.
Because there was this textbook fund, and they, um, they came to us and they're like, okay, which textbooks do you want us to buy? And we were like, can we not buy?
Can we get some, some other props?
Yeah. And so we ended up, um, like fortunately we, uh, we had a little bit of a fight on our hands, but at the end it was decided that we could then use the money to buy like magazine subscriptions and, um, some access to some online game, like language learning games. You can buy, um, like school subscriptions so that everybody can go on. And actually as a teacher, um, you can kind of monitor your student's progress in these, these games. And everything in their life is gamified, um, at this point. So, they're, you know, it's a lot easier to say, okay, I want you to go up at least one level on Duolingo tonight, than to be like, all right, you have to read pages three, four and five, and do some corresponding questions.
Better yeah. Exactly. That's a good point. You know, even Duolingo with its many flaws and a lot of people criticize it would be in my view infinitely better than most textbooks, certainly the ones that I had when I was in school, just because it's just such a boring way to do it. And in Duolingo you get the nice graphics and you get the funny sentences and,
Yeah.
And yeah, like,
And yeah, like, with things like Duolingo, obviously, like, I agree with you, there, there's some legitimate criticisms, but, any, any little bit, a little bit of that, a little bit of anything else and with the guidance of a teacher, which I think is important. I'm always amazed by the, the people that are able to self-teach without any, um, outside tutoring or guidance, like that just all the props to them. Um, but, you know, to, to, just having that guidance with those online platforms, I think can be really amazing.
Yeah, definitely agreed. One, one last thing I, I just had in mind, uh, before we finish is the, you said you went back to get, I, I forget the word you used to, a proper linguistic background. Just remind me what, what that was, the,
Yeah.
Uh, so I went and got a diploma in language and literacy education. Right. So, what did that, what did that teach you, uh, any surprises or aha moments that you could apply to your own teaching? Or was it more solidifying what you already imagined was the, the way to go?
Um, that's a really great question. Um, I think I found it. I, I did it through UBC, where I also did my, um, education degree. Uh, and I, I found the diploma very, very helpful. When I was learning how to be a teacher, all that philosophy discussion about what is teaching, and, and what is the subject matter, and grappling with that, it was, it was too soon for me because I was just like, how do I make a lesson plan? Teach me that.
Um, whereas later, as I'd been teaching, to grapple with those bigger philosophical questions, made me, I think, a better teacher, and I was ready for it. Um, the other thing that really came to me was the role of social emotional learning in how we teach, and just how important it is for students in their learning, Um, and to make those connections with our students and to have that emotionally safe space for them to be in.
Um, and really making it about teaching the students, not necessarily teaching the subject matter. The students are the people that we teach, we're just happen to be teaching French while we do that. Um, and I think that makes them better language learners because they feel like they have a place in the classroom, and I'm not just throwing grammar at them and waiting to see what sticks. Um, I'm actually, you know, teaching what they want and what they need to know.
Um, and then I, I highly recommend anyone getting, you know, to go back because I, like anything, I had some classes that were maybe not so great, but then I had some amazing classes, mostly taught by working teachers, um, that were just highlighting some really cool techniques to use in the classroom, um, some references.
And the other thing is that there's so much amazing research happening in the field of linguistics and language education and just education in general, and it often feels like these papers are published and then the only people that ever read them are other academics.
Right.
And so being in this situation where I was forced to read them, because I mean, honestly, you come home, it's like, Netflix or academic paper.
Yeah.
So, like, uh, um, made me realize that there's some really amazing research out there. And that some of the stuff I was doing was being backed by research. And then some of the stuff I was being doing was not. Um, so, for instance, I stopped doing spelling tests because there's very little research that supports that being helpful in any way.
Yeah. You could also argue if it's even important. I mean,
Yeah.
I, I understand for language one, you want to get people a comprehensive level, but for language two or three, it should really be mostly about communication. And if, and if you halt, if you halt communication by being overly, uh, stringent on the spelling, then I, I would definitely see the, the reasons for why that would be a bad idea. I'd rather have people with spelling mistakes, but actually being, you know, understandable in, in context, then students just afraid to produce anything because they don't want to make a a typo or they're, oh, I don't know how to spell this, so I don't, I'm not going to write anything.
Amen to that. I wish, I wish all language teachers and language learners could have the, the same perspective you do about that.
Well, that's the revolution we're trying to start, isn't it? You know, we're, it's, it's a long battle, but we're trying to get rid of the grammar tables and the dusty textbooks and the, the spelling tests. And, uh, hopefully one day we'll, we'll get there. But, um, but until then, I just want to say thank you for coming on and and sharing your story and, and enthusiasm about language learning. I really appreciate it.
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Very welcome. Bye.