Lina Vasquez: Mindset, Psychology, and Self-development

This episode of the Actual Fluency Podcast is brought to you by Optilingo. You can learn over 18 languages with the guided immersion method. For your free lesson, just go to optilingo.com. That's O P T I L I N G O.com.

General, the general desire to be better in a way, as as as the cliché as that kind of sounds, but what that means is basically you want more out of life, whether you want to be more fluent in French, or you want to be uh, fitter, or you want to have, you know, build your income or we really discuss this idea that everything is related, and language learning as a metaphor, really, uh, symbolizes everything else in life quite well. So the, uh, the techniques and and things that we talk about on the podcast in general are widely applicable to any area in in life that you want to pursue.

And and, um, this is a a special treat for me. It was a really good episode. A lot of topics that I really like, you know, sometimes we talk about what apps to use, and, you know, what methods to use, very specific tactics. But this episode is really more of a meta episode. It's really more of a mindset and uh, underlying psychology episode. So, if that's not for you, obviously, uh, you know, wait for the next episode where I'm sure we'll get into some more tactics, strategies, and, um, more tangible ideas. These are a little bit esoteric. But that's what I like to do, and I know that's what Lena likes to do as well. So, let's enjoy the episode with Lena Vasquez.

Oh, how I got into languages? I feel like it well, language has kind of found me, to be honest. I was born in Latvia, and I grew up in Australia. And so, the first kind of seven years of my life were really spent in airports. I think airports that was a a prominent memory that I have from my childhood of constantly flying between Latvia and Australia with my mom. And with that, you know, came this immersion of obviously, the Latvian language, and the English language, but I was just so astounded and intrigued as a child by all of these different tongues that were being spoken around me.

And my mom put me into an international school, so it was full of people from over 40, 50 different countries. And I was actually in the New Arrivals program, which is the one that you get put into when you don't speak English very well. So, I actually had to learn English, um, yeah, as my as my second language kind of thing. And I think from there on, I just was surrounded by people from many different cultures. My first best friend was Serbian. And then I had a French friend, and Greek friends, and it was just such a fascinating, um, like almost superpower that I found that when you even learned how to say one or two phrases in another language, your relationship to a person completely changed, like changed. So, I think that that is something I've taken from my childhood, and I always just say languages or what inspired my my love of languages was a love of people, and a curiosity for people, and finding out how people interrelate, connect, um, to grow my connections to to different cultures in the world.

And so I went on to study languages and linguistics with law at university. And then I went to university in Germany for for a brief period of time. And that's kind of how it all started. And so, now I work as a language and communication coach. So, that involves me not so much teaching languages anymore. So, I I did that for about six years. But I now, you know, have a YouTube channel or three YouTube channels which I run, and I love kind of, yeah, performing and creating videos about um, like communication and psychology. So, I've really intertwined now in in my coaching a mix of, you know, self-confidence, psychology, still with that aspect of communication. So, how people can communicate with more confidence, not only in a foreign language, but also in their own language. So, that's just the kind of the tip of the iceberg.

And, uh, obviously, this isn't something really I I want to include in this episode, but I I but I was interested in in your kind of international upbringing, and, and I guess that a lot of people who go through that kind of international school end up being sort of global citizens, in a way, that like to travel a lot, and they see across borders for for jobs and opportunities and maybe do some things that aren't a standard, but what what went into your decision to sort of study languages in, in a in a formal way?

Because I think often, we can get this kind of idea of it's fun to do it as a hobby, or or on the side, but as soon as academics get in the way, for me, anyway, kind of sometimes removes the some of the things that I like about it. It becomes this kind of chore, almost, uh, to the point where I'm thinking, like, is this really what I like about languages, you know, when when I did I did a bit of an English degree here in Denmark, and it was just very boring. And, you know, going into a linguistic class, I I know a lot of people like that stuff. And I have a lot of linguistics friends. But for me, it was just like, that wasn't what it uh, attracted me to languages personally. It wasn't like talking about it, or studying about languages. It was more what you could achieve with the language skills, and and seeing how that process could be improved.

So, how did you make that kind of jump from okay, I I speak a few languages through immersion, and I kind of want to do more languages, or was that based on, did you have any potential jobs in the future that you thought, oh, this is going to be super fun to do?

And, um, to be very honest with you, I think I was very privileged that my beliefs around languages and the way that I was personally introduced into not only languages as in in my everyday life, but in terms of language learning as well, I was very blessed to have always had a very positive, I'm going to say, belief system around them. So, when I started learning foreign languages, I was really like, seven, eight, nine years old, and it came from the fact that I just love to learn.

And my mom as well, she studied Spanish, um, when I was a kid, and my stepfather is also Spanish-speaking. So, we grew up kind of learning Spanish together. And so, the environment that I was in first of all was very supportive of languages being being a very, you know, fun and uplifting experience. So, I actually never really had that traditional perspective until very late, much later in life. And I think by that point, you know, when I reached university and studied, you know, majored in German, and I majored in French, and I did Russian and and Italian on the side as well, I had already developed my own way of learning languages. So, I had my own system, and I didn't actually need to rely too much on what other people said or how other people were teaching. I kind of just took the input, and transformed it, and created my own journey, if that makes sense.

So, um, yeah, I absolutely. Languages for me, you know, I found them in, you know, dance, festivals on the weekend, because we went to Latino parties or on Sundays, because my dad was very religious, we would go to, um, church every Sunday. And the church kind of mass was in Spanish. And so, I kind of, I really lived languages. So, I never saw it, I never actually thought about a career in languages. I when I was in high school, I actually wanted to be a journalist, and I thought, okay, I, you know, these languages for me are an asset, they can open up doors, but they are not what I primarily want to do. And then, yeah, it's it's kind of funny that I landed into doing what I want what I am doing now, because I initially wanted to be a a lawyer, or a psychologist. And so I went down that route, obviously, studying languages on the side to kind of balance everything out.

But I think that it's very important, like my number one tip for anybody listening, who kind of has one, has a, you know, those traditional beliefs around languages being supplementary, or having kind of, you know, you already feel it. Like, if somebody says language learning, and based on your own experiences, if you're kind of sighing right now, or you're thinking back to your, you know, grade seven teacher, who taught you French, or or Indonesian, or whatever, and you're thinking, I hated that person, you you ruined languages for me. I would say to, well, to just remind yourself that that doesn't have to be the case, and to also just just be open to exploring new avenues. I think that is probably one of the key things that stops people from actually having a good experience is they're so trapped by their old limiting beliefs around where languages can take you.

But I think that there are a couple of of key issues that the education system as a whole is is not bringing to light, and is really not, you know, doing anything about, which which in turn causes people to actually have a very skewed view on learning, and a very negative perspective when it comes to learning in general, and then specific language learning. And I think it it all starts with, you know, people not understanding themselves, or not being given an avenue of expression, um, in terms of what their, you know, own cognitive preferences are, their personality, and learning styles. You know, everybody is is a unique individual, and yet the education system is is basically treating everybody as as as, you know, a series of robots. Not not not fully, but, you know, I've been very blessed to have have had really amazing language teachers. And I can honestly say, I think if I in high school didn't have inspiring language teachers, perhaps my view on language learning would be very different right now, or I may not have gone into taking, you know, undertaking languages in university because of that reason.

But I think, you know, coming back to the main point, um, people learn at very different rates. People have very different types of learners. And some people need more support than others. Some people know, you know, especially let's say, we're talking about high school, or even early university. At that age, you're still discovering yourself. You're still discovering your own learning style. You're discovering your passions. And, you know, language are not going to be for everybody. But I think it's important for teachers to identify the different styles of students, or the different interests of students, and really help them find their motivation, and help them become, you know, autodidact. So, people that can learn by themselves, because I think that was always the key indicator from my own studies of knowing who was going to succeed in a course and who wasn't. And it had nothing to do with how much knowledge they had, or, you know, if they had found the perfect system, which we know doesn't exist. But it was about how motivated are they to just explore, like, how passionate are they about this subject, or let's say, about something in that language. So, those are kind of my two cents on on that topic, in a nutshell.

But, um, I actually two weeks ago, I I enrolled in a language course in my old university, because in order to graduate from one of the programs that I was doing, I didn't realize I had to still complete a couple of units. So, I decided to do that, and I enrolled in in a French course. And I was in this, like, with the same professor in 2013 and 2014. So, it's been, you know, seven, like, six or seven years. And, Kris, the the structure is exactly the same. The topics we are covering, the book we are even using, is exactly the same as it was six or seven years ago.

And I think that that just highlights one of the key issues that really requires transformation, and, yeah, just just transformation in in the language learning world. You need to have fresh, new ideas, and techniques in terms of learning, because otherwise, it just it just becomes boring. And as soon as that switch goes off in a student, where they see it as something mechanical, that's where the learning stops. And that's where it becomes really tedious, and just the opposite of how your brain even enjoys learning.

And, you know, if you if you focus the curriculum about memorization, and vocabulary, and maybe even reading, then people who are not really into those things will get very bored. And I think that the key, at least for me, the the fun funnest part of language learning will always be speaking, you know, and singing, to some degree, I think that works well in, especially in the younger classes where you can sing songs in the foreign language, and that will help pronunciation very well. But there's just this emphasis about we need to do tables, and, uh, vocabulary lists, and a lot of reading, and and by the time you graduate, you know, there's just no not enough, uh, practice with actual speaking and listening in in some degrees, as well.

Yeah. And I I I'm kind of baffled by that, because it's you'd think, at some point, some clever person would realize, you know what, languages are not the same as physics, or chemistry, or mathematics. And then maybe we shouldn't teach them the same way. But, yeah. It's just stuck in the past. And obviously, in every country, or at least, most countries that I'm aware of, all this is regulated by the government. Because they want all the students to know certain things. And obviously, it's much easier to, does the student know the meaning of these 50 words, or can the student speak for 10 minutes? I mean, that last one is very hard to kind of define and compare, whereas the first one is like, do you know it or not? And, so I think those are the challenges for the educational system.

But of course, we can do things simultaneously. You know, we can do our little protest, in a way, uh, where we, you know, like your YouTube channel, my podcast, and other people's vlogs, and and books and videos that kind of showcase that, you know, not only can you learn a language outside of school, it's actually also in most cases, advantageous, and more efficient, and it's certainly cheaper. Um, so, I mean, we're all doing our little part, and maybe hopefully, one day, some of these, uh, I know some schools, and there are some teachers out there. I've heard stories about who kind of take a lot of responsibility and and initiative in in improving the the the condition of their personal school or or language course. And and so that's positive. But I I definitely think there's a long way to go and, uh, our activism needs to, uh, continue to, um, hopefully, get more people excited about it.

Big shout out to Optilingo for sponsoring the Actual Fluency Podcast here in 2020. Optilingo is a language learning app that features a method known as guided immersion to teach you over 18 languages at the time of recording this segment. And it focuses a lot about speaking and repeating, and listening, of course, to get your pronunciation just right. It doesn't bother about grammar. It doesn't bother about long explanations of syntax or morphology, or any complicated concepts that kind of hold you back from speaking better.

And, um, you can get a free lesson right now if you go to Optilingo.com. That's O P T I L I N G O.com, Optilingo. And, uh, if you do decide to subscribe for the full version of each language, like I said, there are 18, there are more than 18 actually, available. Um, it's only five bucks a month. So, it's extremely affordable, as well, for the for the full package. But, I'm just really happy they are part of the podcast here in 2020. And it's run by my good friend Jonty, who kind of stumbled upon the method that the app teaches when he was trying to learn his own heritage language of Circassian, of which there is, uh, not a lot of, uh, resources out there for. So, thank you so much to Jonty and Optilingo. I hope you give it a try. And, uh, let's get back to the action.

And it all does start, you know, on the on the macro scale of the education boards, and they they want, you know, very quantitative results. They want to have percentages, and symbols, and and, you know, like something tangible to measure people by. But language learning is not like that. So, I think that, yeah, the best best language teachers are the ones that are trendsetters. And they they in their classrooms, they reinvent the learning style, while still meeting the, you know, the requirements of the board.

But as well, I also think that not everybody should be a should become a teacher. You know, teaching is seen as something super simple. But actually, teaching isn't about leading in terms of being a dictator. It's very much about facilitating, and the students are and should always be at the core. You know, and I think language teachers don't actually ask their students enough, where they need support, how can I help you? I think that relationship is the one that allows for students to feel comfortable, to speak more in class, and make mistakes, and ask questions. And I think that as well is one part of of the issue.

And it's funny that the more global the world becomes, like, the more connected we become, it seems like the value of learning languages goes up, uh, which is, which is really cool. Uh, and I think that there's a lot of people always ask me, like, you know, it's Google Translate not just going to replace all, oh, gosh, all the time. And I'm just like, no, it it won't matter. There there will never be a time where technology replaces, I mean, you might get technology that teaches you the language, like implants into your brain. But you will still learn the language. Uh, because just because of the personal connections. You know, learning a language is not about translating, uh, accurately, or or being able to conduct a a conversation. It's the it's the connection. And if you have to, I don't know if you've seen those, uh, Kickstarter campaigns with these earbuds.

And I think that what people often forget when they see these devices, and and especially the way that they're marketed, is they don't they kind of forget the reality of the situation. And I think that language underlies all expression, and language isn't just about translation. It is about body language. It is about communicating a message, which doesn't actually, well, which isn't only kind of implied in the wording you use, but it's so much more.

And, you know, if if those of you listening, like, think about a a business transaction, or an important discussion that you have to have, you know, an official matter that you need to discuss in another language. If you if you, like, if you're having to use these earplugs, or whatever, first of all, your brain isn't isn't doing any any work. Therefore, it's going to become boring very quickly, because it's it's removing that element of, you know, gratification within you, of achieving something, of actually being able to to use and own in on a new skill. And it's going to get very frustrating, because there, you know, I think such technology only really follows the the development of humans. So, it's can only copy and and mimic that which a human is able to put into a into a system, or into, you know, AI already.

So, language is one of those things where, for example, with expressions, and vocabulary in itself, it's always changing. You know, like, if I look at the German language, for example, especially being here in Berlin, Denglish is such a thing, where it's it's become a norm to use a lot of English words, and mix them with German words, and then create new words. And AI can't catch up with that as quickly. Imagine you're in a situation, and you hear that, and then your your little earpiece has translated it literally, and then and you're in the middle of like a sales call or something, that's going to stuff up everything. So, I think that anybody who thinks that they can rely on technology is really doing themselves a massive disservice, both in the short term and in the long term.

Um, but speaking of sort of how to learn languages, I I saw on one of your great YouTube channels that you had a video about, uh, you were speaking in, was it 15 different languages? So, ah, yeah. The one where you switch between them. Obviously, you have a a lot of experience in in language learning, and I assume at at very different times and levels, and and and kind of intensity. So, would you take us through like, how did language learning look for you at at the beginning of your experience? And and what would it look like today? What's sort of the evolution you've gone through as a as a language learner?

Um, I kind of just took a really intuitive approach, to be honest. I just tried a lot of things. So, I I started by actually picking up a book in French from the library, because my school had a multilingual book section. And even though I couldn't read the language, I'd never learned the language. I kind of just did it. And then I obviously had no idea what I was doing, but I could understand a couple of words, because I thought that they were similar to Spanish.

And, yeah, I think I just I started learning from other people. And that has really stayed at the core of my own personal preferred method or strategy, or whatever you want to call it, is I learn best from like by asking questions, and really just by doing. So, I would just constantly ask other people and my friends, hey, how do you say this? How do you say this? Or I would test out the phrase that I'd seen in a in a little phrasebook, and then use it. Or when my mom and I would be, you know, out and about, or traveling, I would ask her to how how do I say this in Russian? How do I say that in Russian? And then I would use it.

And so, obviously, then I went into like traditional schooling, and kind of let myself be a little bit more passive, and and try it out a lot of, well, I just kind of followed textbooks, and followed what the teacher did. And then it was really, I would say, in my last year of university, or a bit after that, even, where I was suddenly thrown into, yeah, taking control of my own learning, and really recognizing, or putting together all the pieces of what I had found worked, what I found didn't work.

And especially in my, yeah, in my last years of university, I used a lot more YouTube. So, for anybody who's trying to put dates together, this was in maybe 2015, 2016. So, I watched series, and and YouTube was really becoming, you know, more prominent in terms of, uh, language learning. So, I kind of mixed, yeah, a lot of, I did a lot of input. I read a lot of lot more language blogs. Took advice from other people and polyglots. And, uh, kind of you yeah, just just explored a lot until I found my, I guess, method now, which really depends on what what the goal is I'm trying to reach, and is very focused on speaking.

So, I still very much learn from other people. I love to just throw myself into situations, talk, make mistakes. I mean, just two days ago, I was, you know, in a Portuguese conversation, and I was like, in any type of real life input. So, if you're, you know, if you're overhear a dialogue, or if you're sitting with friends who are speaking in a language you're learning, I will really be more attentive than usual, and listen out, and find patterns in how they speak. And then mimic them. Ask for confirmation if what I've said was correct. And then make sure I I reuse that language as soon as possible, so that it gets stored in my long-term memory.

And then I also just love creating videos in other languages. That really has become, I guess, the main means of how I keep up my languages is I have a lot of, you know, business calls, or coaching calls, and and I create a lot of videos in multiple languages, and that helps me maintain them now. So, that's kind of, well, I don't know if that was a short answer, but that's the overview.

Um, so, some people listening who might not be as, uh, experienced might might think, well, how do you get that into a practical language? Because it sounds like she's just kind of, you know, waltzing about learning, you know, two phrases here and there. How does that become like a a useful amount of, let's say, vocabulary and phrases? Do you just build on build on top of it, or do you do anything, let's say, outside the the practical scenarios that kind of reinforce it, or do you write them down when you get home, or how does it work?

So, it's just, you know, in terms of of language learning, it's it encompasses so many tidbits, like, so many tiny details. So, if you imagine it, if I think of it in an analogy, it's like, imagine you're building a house. And you don't you normally think of, okay, yeah, house has, you know, bricks, or wood, or metal, or whatever it's it's made of these days. And you've got some plaster here, and then I've got, you know, my couch and table. What you don't see is or what you don't think about is all the, you know, are all the screws that were used, and all the little bolts and things.

So, I think taking everything that I've done apart, it's, you know, my learning happens sometimes when I'm sitting on the train, and I have a phrase that comes to me. I will get out my phone, and my notes, my literally, my Notes app on my phone. If anybody wants to see it, it has the most random phrases and words that that in different languages, because when they come to me, I make sure to write them down. Or if I've, you know, if I've Googled something, or I've asked a friend, I do make sure I write it down. And it's not always, you know, on my phone. It's also in my in my journal, or on a on, you know, pieces of paper that I have lying nearby. But I like to keep it usually stored in one location.

But I do definitely like, I do write things down, and I do, um, do the kind of more theoretical side, because it allows me to process the language, and have it ingrained, you know, in both my visual memory, and as well, just in in terms of recollection. So, I do a lot of different things, Kris. That's the thing. Like, I also record my voice, so that I have the pronunciation aspects. Sorry, pronunciation aspects. I know that I I get I get called out on saying pronunciation wrong all the time, but it's because in Australia, we learned to say it most of the time as pronunciation. Anyway.

Obviously, you know, for example, with with my French course at the moment, it does involve a lot of grammar. And I think grammar is a great thing, because it, you know, it does help you kind of fast track by learning certain rules, so that you don't need to kind of, well, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, if there are already rules that exist, that are going to help you understand the language better. So, it's it's a balance, I would say.

Like, that is really a point that I've gotten into, where I know my way of learning. And that came through a lot of trial and error. And if you are someone who loves, you know, taking classes, or having group lessons, or studying from a book, or, you know, reading more, and you're more, let's say, you take your time, and you like to process things in a more introverted manner, that is perfectly okay. And that is so important to distinguish. And I think a lot of people miss that step, that they don't actually understand, you know, their own kind of cerebral, or, you know, cognitive preference, and they let themselves kind of be be taken down a route that doesn't actually suit them.

And I think that if anything, I that I've learned from doing all these interviews is that there is no one answer. You know, there are hundreds and hundreds of ways to do it. And, at the end of the day, as long as you put time into it, the method itself doesn't really matter that much. It's more what you like to do, and you can do a lot of, and then over time, that will lead you somewhere. Uh, I I can't promise it will lead you to fluency or mastery, or whatever. But, it will definitely give you something. And it's a good way to get some momentum going. And then you can always reevaluate once you've done it for a while, where you want to go with it.

Some people are perfectly happy just being knowing a few touristy phrases and getting around in in, you know, in their holiday village, or whatever. Whereas others would like to understand the deeper meaning of very serious literary works, or, you know, understanding native speakers when they speak really fast about technical subjects. Whatever your goals may be, it all starts from this early momentum of doing whatever you like to do for a period of time, uh, quite an extended period of time.

Sometimes people don't realize the the amount of time it takes, you know, we have these kind of guidelines. We all cite these, uh, Foreign Services Institute guidelines, which are obviously completely, uh, generalizing. But if they are somewhat correct, then it means to learn a similar language would take somewhere in the region of, you know, five to 600 hours. And that's just conversational. That's not even near mastery. So, if you want to take it to mastery, it's even further. And you have to think about 500 hours. Okay, that's like, uh, one and a half hours a day, or or thereabouts. You know, that's a lot of study time. And most people just don't have that. That's why they never get anywhere. Because they do like 10 minutes every Sunday or something, you know. So, you have to decide what what what's your goal.

And and if your goal is to master a language, because you have, uh, maybe your partner's from there, you want to impress them, or you want to meet the the in-laws or whatever. Uh, you need to really work a lot on it. And there's no magic. No. Or anything. Or anything. Magic bullet, magic pill or anything that will get you to your goals immediately. But then again, you don't really need to, because the whole process is quite enjoyable. You know, as long as you can say one thing, then that's super fun to be able to, uh, start using the language. Even if it's just a little bit, um, it's it's a process. It is. And if you if you break all of that down, and put it into really simple, actionable steps, all it is is taking action on a consistent basis, and committing just to doing something that is going to get you towards your ideal goal, every single day. You know. Um, but Well, not not you know, that sounds a lot like succeeding in anything. Oh my god. Yeah, I think I think we're about to say but Lena, no. But that's that's the thing. But I think people over like they sabotage themselves by overwhelming themselves in the beginning. You know, they're already, if you imagine a a multi-story building, like a high-rise building, they're already thinking about the like, the 40th floor, when they haven't even left the ground floor yet. And that is with anything, like you you are going to waste time that you could have spent actually climbing up those stairs, and taking all of those steps, in terms of, yeah, like by by overthinking, or trying to figure out, oh, which strategy should I take. So, if we're if we're sticking to our analogy, you know, should I wear the running shoes up these stairs? Should I use flip-flops, no? Like, all of that time is just wasted. Just go. Yeah. Use what you have. Do what you can with the knowledge you have. And as you said, any type of goal. Yeah.

And so, sometimes we forget that, you know, we are amazing beings, in in in in every one in their own unique way. And especially the brain, like, and and and, you know, the good thing with the brain right now is that we've got the internet, which gives us the ability to do anything. Like, could you imagine 50 years ago, sitting down, writing a book, and publishing it, and getting like thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people, well, I I guess I could take your YouTube channel as an example. Like, could you imagine just casually starting your own TV channel, uh, 50 years ago, and, and how would you even get the camera and, and and I think that taking away some of those barriers of entry, making it total freefall, like, anyone can essentially record themselves. You know, even the camera in our phones now is better than the best movie camera. Probably 10, 15 years ago.

Uh, I think all those combined really for me calls for people to, uh, be great. And and you know, like you said, there's no I'm not talking about trying to save the world or, you know, invent a cure for cancer or anything, although that would be nice, too. But it doesn't have to be that scale of greatness. I'm not talking about necessarily changing the world. I'm just initially, I want you to change your world. Exactly. Like, I want you to look at your thing. It's like that thing in the plane, you know, take care of yourself before you take care of. Put on your own mask. Yeah, before you assist others. Yeah, exactly.

And I think in life, and in language learning, you have to basically play your own game. And and it's just, um, it's just I I think it's an African old proverb. And I I really love it. It's this idea of if there's no enemy within, then the enemy outside can do you no harm. And it's so true. And every single time that I've ever tried to do something, I haven't been stopped by haters, or people who criticize me, or people who said, you know, I haven't even been stopped by my parents, who said, why don't you just get a job? Or why why did you do this? What why do you waste your time on this frivolous Internet thing that you're doing? That has never stopped me. But what has stopped me is my own internal doubts, and and sort of self-criticism.