Lindsay Williams: From tutoring to language business

Alright everyone, it's time for another episode of the Actual Fluency podcast and today I'm joined again by Lindsay Dow from Lindsay Does Languages. Uh, and Lindsay was on the podcast two years ago so we're going to catch up with her and see what's been going on with her and her language learning business. But Lindsay, how are you doing today?

I'm very well. I'm very well, very busy, but happy. Busy is good, I think.

Yeah, definitely. It it shows that you've got stuff going on, right? So...

Yeah, absolutely. That's good.

So I was just as I was just saying to the listeners, you were on the podcast episode 8 back in May of 2014. So, I mean, in internet years that's about 10 years, right?

That's insane. And what episode number is this?

Eight. Oh, this is oh, I don't know. Like...

Like 80 plus?

Yeah, probably 82, yeah.

That's insane.

So it's been a few episodes since then, but um, so basically for those, maybe you just want to give a quick uh introduction to yourself for people who haven't stumbled across your blog or your YouTube channel or Snapchat, Instagram, you're all over the place. Pinterest, uh, if somebody for some unknown reason haven't stumbled across you. Could you just give a little explanation on what you do, who you are, and uh how you got into this?

Absolutely. So, hello. Uh my name's Lindsay, and my business is Lindsay Does Languages. So I blog, I make videos, I teach, and I learn languages as well at Lindsydoeslanguages.com primarily. Um but as you say, yeah, all the social media and the YouTube and everything is as is necessary nowadays.

And now you're everywhere. Um which we'll get into in a moment. Uh but um, how did you make that transition from local tutor to online tutor and did you were there any sort of struggles or challenges in the beginning because I can imagine those are quite different things, aren't they?

Oh my goodness. Yes, so it is a very different uh job I guess. It's a very, very different teaching environment. Um and I I get a lot of emails from people saying, I teach and I want to start teaching online and I don't know where to start and it's like, I don't blame you because it's not easy. There is a big difference. And I think one of the main things is the resources. So over those first two years, I'd built up a huge collection of teaching resources, kind of mostly um because I was teaching the three languages, they were mostly um resources that I could use for multiple languages. So kind of like, you know, I had obviously language specific things like flashcards and whatever and and and things. But a lot of games. So things like boggle that you could just it's just letters and I could, you know, I wasn't teaching something like Chinese where they were different. You know, the letters were the same in English, French and Spanish, or are the same I should say. So um, so I had all this resources for face-to-face lessons that I then couldn't use. You know, I couldn't be like, right, get excited. I'm going to have the fun of spinning the the the boggle and and picking the letters and then I'm going to hold up to the camera. That's not going to work. So, you know, that that is a big difference.

You can go to iTalkie now and there'll be, I mean, how many thousands of people teach English? It's it's incredible and but what I what I think is that yeah, it's a it's a kind of a busy marketplace and it's there's a lot of competition, but also if you do anything to stand out like you did, it doesn't have to be like a blog or you can do a lot of things to stand out. As soon as you stand out, you'll be head and shoulders above the rest, I think. And...

Absolutely. And like you say, it can just be one thing. Like, um, for example, okay, so I'm doing a webinar with Gabby Wallace this Saturday. So she to me stands out as being YouTube. Like her YouTube channel is amazing. I think she has probably maybe even like 100,000, I think, over 100,000 subscribers. Fantastic YouTube channel, really good videos, really great content. And I feel like the key with that. And then another example would be um, Jennifer Nasman for example, who teaches English, English Outside the Box. And she is big on Instagram. So she uses Instagram to take pictures of her life, but then, for example, junk mail was one I saw this morning where she's taken a picture of all her junk mail, address hidden, obviously. Um but then she's talked about junk mail and, you know, where it comes from, what it means, how you might use it in the description. So they then create this audience like, oh, you're giving me all this free content. And I think that's crucial as well to give people you want to you want to be a giver, not a taker. Yeah. You want to come across as as that. So, yeah. Um but I mean, for me, personally, like that transition was not too bad because there was a lot of overlap. So from kind of summer of 2013, I think that's when I first started to look at iTalkie and sort of that sort of began to become big much, much bigger, I would say from from that point. Um not just for me, I say in general it's been growing constantly since then. Um, but so I I put myself on there, you know, ridiculously low price and I had one student who I taught about three times a week and it just fitted in at the time with all the bread factory English lessons and and the private lessons. It fitted in really nicely. Um and then, you know, I had that basic experience to then build on. So then rather than just be like, hello everyone, I teach online now. No, I I'd built some experience because it's not just about, okay, you may have 15, 20 years experience in a classroom to then just go, now I teach online. You're going to need you're going to need something, you're going to need some experience.

Yeah, and I I think you touch on some good uh examples there because once you start in a marketplace or anywhere really, you set your price lower than much lower than you would imagine it to be finally, because then people come and try you out because they see, oh, this is a good deal. And it's beneficial for you because you can kind of test your methodology. You can you can get build up your sort of routine to a point where when you have 25-star reviews, you'll be like, okay guys, I think I'm worth a little bit more than $10 now. So you increase your price and what I did, I did that for Danish on iTalkie, and I lost no students on that. I I double my price within a few months. No no students left. It was only when I increased my price four times uh that they started complaining and I I had to explain that I increased it so much because I don't want any students right now because I'm busy. Um so this is just, I mean, I don't really don't have time, but if you want to pay me $40 an hour for for lessons, I'll find time for you. Don't worry. Um so that was that was funny that, you know, at $10, I got a lot of uh tutoring requests, even for Danish, which is a small language. And uh then at $20, everyone was just like, yeah, well, you're worth it because I'd done let's say 10, 15 lessons at the cheap price, all five-star reviews. I'd planned my lessons well. I'd found materials, prepared, and I'd help people outside the class. So I went above and beyond and people are like, well, this is amazing. And so that attracted new students at the the higher price as well.

I think, yeah, and and like you mentioned about the raising prices, that's a really interesting topic because that's a very difficult thing to do, um, and you know, any, I think in any business, but especially with online teaching because you you can't just say, like if you're in a shop and you raise the price of a chocolate bar by like 5p each, no one's really going to notice. But when you have a lesson and you you feel like, well, the the price now needs to raise by 5 pounds, you know, you can't just go, well it's going to go up by a pound this year and a pound next year and a pound next. You have to just do it once every however many years in like a bulk kind of like now you've been getting it cheaper for this long now it's time to increase that price. And it's a very difficult thing to do, which is another another reason why something like iTalkie is a brilliant place to start because it can give you that experience without that pressure of, oh, I'm going to lose all my students. You know, like you said, no one dropped off with that initial price increase. So that's interesting.

You could also ask your students, what do you think is a fair price for this service that I'm giving you? And a lot of students would say, I think you're too cheap. I definitely do. I still think I have tried to tell my Russian tutor, who is a full-time tutor on iTalkie, she's amazing tutor, I've been trying to tell her for years that she's undercharging herself. And she's like, oh, I don't I'm not really comfortable increasing my price and stuff like that. But I mean, she is just above and beyond and, you know, always answers questions outside the lessons and, you know, provides such a great uh lesson and she's a very professional. She's doing it professionally, so...

That's insane.

And she's charging, I think, $11 an hour. You know, it's...

Yeah.

After the iTalkie cut, that's like nothing.

It's so difficult as well to see your worth as an online tutor sometimes. I mean, it's something that it's something that, I'll be honest, in the beginning, I definitely struggled with because I had the the face-to-face lessons and I felt like, well, people are getting more from me in a face-to-face lesson because they're getting me face-to-face. And you feel like you're giving more. So you feel like, well, I can't increase the online price because that's not worth as much as that. Yeah, and that price hasn't increased yet. Oh, so how does this work? But then I kind of realized, well, you know what? I'm spending as much time planning and preparing for these online lessons as I am for a face-to-face lesson. Yeah. So it shouldn't be any different. And in fact, the reason why it's gone online, you know, it's much more of a benefit to to me in terms of when I was face-to-face and I'd leave the house at say, 3:30 p.m., I'd drive to the first lesson, I'd be there for half an hour, an hour and then I'd drive to the next one, and I'd drive to the next one, and hopefully, you know, it took me two years to get it to a point where things matched up beautifully to like just five minutes between houses. But you know, there was a time where it's like, right, you have the first lesson, half an hour. Next lesson, 20 minutes to the next house. And then, you know, and that's an hour of driving plus that you've lost that you could have been teaching. Whereas if you're online, you can just go one lesson, next lesson, next lesson, boom, done.

Yeah.

It's difficult to see your worth.

Yeah, and you don't have to pay petrol and...

Yeah.

Coffees or if you have in a cafe or something. So, well, anyway, I think we've uh we've we've given people a lot of uh help for tutoring, but um, the the best thing is you just get started. You know, just try it out. You don't have to overthink it. Just try it out. If you want to tutor, uh like I said, Swahili or whatever, go for it. I mean, there's people looking for every language on iTalkie, I think. Um and some languages are obviously more crowded than others, but if you can stand above the crowd somehow, YouTube, uh blogging, Facebook, whatever it is, you know, you have a good shot of of making it and and set your price a little lower so you can attract people to review you, which is essentially what you need. You need confirmation that what you're doing is worth the price. So...

Hmm. Good question. I can't remember. I think what happened. So when I started the blog, I didn't really think this is a way to make money on the side. I just thought, this is a way to promote myself for free. You know, it just didn't really cross my mind. And then I think, okay. Here's the thing. I made the I made my first YouTube video. So I the reason, the reason I started, it's funny, we've talked about iTalkie for so long, because actually the very first video that I made for sort of Lindsay Does Languages was my iTalkie um presentation video to be a teacher on.

Yeah. I I definitely agree. I think this is a very sensitive topic that I think in our industry is uh people are a little bit more defensive against uh sort of working with branding and having very um yeah, let's say branded posts in any way. Uh and and it's something that I had I had a bit of a phobia against on Actual Fluency for a long time because I was like, I don't really want to, like you say, turn it into a billboard and and stuff, but, you know, I eventually realized that we're in this together. You know, Assimil is not, yeah, they're trying to make money as all other companies, but they're also trying to make you learn a language better. So, uh they're going to they're picking me up now. No. Um...

Yeah, wow. And then at the end of the day, at the end of the day as well, you have to remember that you are in control of your blog. This is your space. So you're deciding, if you want to work with a brand, it's going to be a brand that you you, you know, you have to believe in it. You have to to like the the the the the product that you're that you're essentially promoting.

Let me ask you something. Let me ask you something. If if somebody or let's say if um, if Rosetta Stone wrote to you, I don't know if they have, and they said, we'll pay you 100 pounds for this if you review our product, what would you do?

I'd say, first of all, that's not enough. I'd say, I'd say...

Well, we to start of a negotiation, right?

No, negotiable. Oh, all right. Okay, well. I would I would say and there okay, so here's the thing. There are plenty of emails in my inbox that have been answered because I will answer people. Um but have been very politely declined because I don't believe in the product or I don't get it enough or it doesn't fit with my brand because even if I get something saying, oh, we've got this amazing new, I don't know, Russian app. So Russian is a language I've never ever studied. Right. Um you know, I could say. Is that, I don't know. So, you know, it's not a language that I've studied, so it's it would be totally random of me to then be like, here's me learning Japanese and Korean right now. Oh, look, there's an amazing thing for Russian. That's not going to be valuable. And there might be, it might be that that would be valuable to readers because there's bound to be readers studying different languages, there's bound to be readers studying Russian. Yeah. But um, but it just doesn't fit. You know.

So you you just decline if it doesn't fit. Yeah, that's my philosophy.

I I see, I feel like there's nothing valuable that can come from a negative review. It's much better for me to just say, sorry, this didn't work. Like...

That's interesting because I thought it was...

Because because, right, anyone can do a review now, if we're talking about an app, for example. Anyone can go in, if if something's really awful, and and anyone can go in and just leave an app review and say, this is less than one star review. It's dire. I hate it. It's dreadful. It's the worst thing in the world, right? So anyone can do that. You can see these you can see the the the the general consensus. If you go on the App Store, if you go on to uh Amazon or whatever product it might be, right? So I feel like it's not it's not fair as well for for a brand to give me their product to to try or to test out and then for me to go, listen, it's rubbish.

I don't know. It's it's a tough question, I feel like because I I feel like...

I I'll tell you what though, I would not let that get to that stage. So I would say, you know, I would I would say, okay, I'll need to have a look before I make a decision if I'm going to review. So, you know, I'd have a quick look and think, okay, we'll give it a little bit of time. We'll have a little look. And then I'd decide. And so I wouldn't say, yeah, I'll write a review. Let me see it. Oh my god, this is awful. What do I do? I'd do it the other way around.

Yeah.

I'd avoid that situation.

But I I don't know. I I the reason I ask is because I I think that we uh we kind of owe it to our audience to be absolutely honest. Of course, that goes without saying. Uh but if we only review the things that we like or only write about the things that we like, then it could give sort of a, I don't know, not the full picture in a way.

I see what you mean. I completely I completely get that. I think...

Like your listener might you listener might never have heard of Rosetta Stone before, right?

I can see your point. And I feel like that is fair. If they haven't got in touch with you. And this is why I just I don't do reviews anymore. I'm like, I'm just not going to go down that avenue because it gets in this territory of like, you know, because I would want I wouldn't want to give people bad press, but at the same time I like you say, I would want to give a full honest opinion of of kind of across the board apps, materials, products, whatever. So I would just I I just don't do reviews now. If if if I'm going to do a sponsored a sponsored post, and I don't to be honest, one of my one of my things for this year is to um kind of work on now that I've I've had that time where I've been able to build um build build kind of my business and and grow it with income from sponsored posts and sponsored um videos, I'm now looking to move away from that. So I feel like it's a great way to to kind of it's a great it's a great side of blogging, but it's something now that I have my own products. Right. That it doesn't seem right to then be like, here's my thing, here's this other thing. It's then too much. So that's something that I'm moving away from this year. But um I've forgotten what your original question was here, sorry.

Well, the discussion is fine. We're just I guess we're just still talking about reviews, how to generate a balanced uh I guess a picture of the language learning world because if you go to any website, you will definitely see reviews with like iTalkie, uh Michel Thomas, Memrise, Anki, all these things that people love and use all the time. But that to me means that there's a bit of a shortage of the crappy stuff. And let's be honest, there are a lot crappy stuff. But the dilemma is, if I make a review that says, uh language uh X is terrible. That's the company name. is terrible. Don't ever buy it. I mean, I'm essentially I'm creating a bad relationship between people who are trying to do good things in the industry. At least I hope so. I mean, some people are obviously trying to get a quick buck and try to oversell really expensive stuff that's not worth it. But if these people are genuinely trying to create something good and they just failed, I'm now saying you're terrible. And if I then meet them at some language conference and stuff, it's going to be very awkward, isn't it?

It just becomes, yeah, it just becomes this very kind of sketchy gray area of where do you draw the line and, you know, what what do you say and not say. But that's I remember what my point was going to be. If I do work with brands, it's not on reviews. Because one thing, I feel like it's unfair for a um, for for a brand to pay for, for a company to pay for a review because, as I say, like reviews are everywhere now. Um you know, and I'm not talking about a blog length review. I'm, you know, but sometimes you just need that one line that says, this is amazing, buy it now, or this is awful, do not touch it with a barge pole, right? You just need that one line and that's enough. But um, so if if I if I've worked with brands in the past, I've tried to make it something that's more bespoke. So something that's more unique and still fits with my brand and is my voice. And, you know, like I've had companies that have got in touch and said, oh, we'd love to um work with you and blah, blah, blah. And you think, okay, let's see. Here's here's media pack. And they say, brilliant, okay. Um, what are SEOs? What are your SEO stats? What are your SEO stats? And can we negotiate on the price? And as soon as they say something, like can we and it's like, you don't know who I am. And this and I I I understand, you know, you're reaching out, you want to get um exposure, you want to get you want to know the SEO stats. And that's fine. I have no problem to give someone the stats if they were going to we were going to work together in collaboration. But you still have to respect that this isn't just a platform. This is this is my platform. You know? Yeah. There's there has to be that kind of acceptance of you know what you're doing. And and it has to be your voice rather than just, we want this written and, you know, I'm sure you've experienced this as well. Certain some brands can be quite annoying. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a whole other side, isn't it, guest posting? Like if...

If you have like the best if you have the world's best translation agency, even if you did that, how am I supposed to know? I mean, I haven't ordered anything from you. So how can I endorse you like that?

Another one is language breaks, when when like, um you know, like come to Spain to learn Spanish, come to Italy to learn Italian. Yeah.

It's like, well, unless you're going to send me there, I can't I can't endorse, you know, I can't I can't work with you because I don't know what this is. Yeah. And then there was a funny one recently I got, I maybe you you you got that as well. There's a Chinese company doing like tutoring. And they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll give you a month where you can try it. I'm like...

You're not learning Chinese.

Give me a month of learning Chinese. What do I need that for? I mean, I mean, I'm a language learner, yes, but randomly changing the language I'm learning so you can endorse it. That's funny. I was like, I was just imagining myself going through a month of Chinese tutoring just to evaluate the quality of their service. And it's like, so if you're out there, if you have a company, if you have a product of some kind, think about what kind of platform you're writing to because they're not all created equal. And if you have a translation agency, I would almost say that's completely outside the the podcast world anyway. I mean, it it yeah, it's languages, but the people who are writing about learning languages, it's very rare that it that the content is about translation. And even then, there are so many translation agencies that I can't endorse one translation agency in January and then suddenly have a new one in in February. You know, that doesn't make any sense. So if you're a translation agency, my suggestion would be to start your own blog and write about stuff. Instead of trying to get in on other platforms because it's I mean, I could not fit it in. And so unless you have some kind of miracle guest guest post where it fits in, and and then it becomes a little bit shady as well. It's like, a translation agency writing about learning languages and then the byline is like, yeah, we're a translation agency. That's kind of questionable, I would say. But anyway, that was just my little rant on apps and translation agencies because I love uh people being innovative, but most language apps are crap. I really crap. And, you know, there are some great ones where they really put time sweat and tears into them. But there are also a lot where it's like, click on this picture and then it shows you the word and you know, I don't want people...

Yeah.

There's a lot that's flavor based as well, which is understandable, but I guess it's kind of, you know, a shame if you if you are looking to take it further. I just think that a lot of apps are not they're not being innovative. They're just side grading or maybe even they're taking something that they're making it worse. If you if you make a new flash card app, I want to see some kind of innovation that makes it better than let's say Memrise or Anki. If you just make another flash card app and it has another design and stuff, I would be very questionable of why why did you spend all this time doing this? Why don't you spend the time working on an extension for existing platforms or something new and innovative? You know, don't just I mean, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, but at least advance something.

I feel the same way now a minute about sort of productivity apps where like, um you know, because I it's like I wrote actually this week on the blog about just really simple time management. Forget the apps. Just get yourself a weekly planner, write down with a pen and pencil exactly what you want to do each day. Because you can spend so much time like faffing around, like this is going to make me more productive. It's like, no, you're going to spend seven hours writing your to-do list.

Total procrastination.

I don't need I don't need that. Yeah. Absolutely.

Totally procrastination. And it's funny you say that because to-do list apps are one of the most, I mean, there must be hundreds of to-do list apps. And I'm like...

I have mine. I like it and it works. And that's it.

To-do list is like. Yeah, and I'm like, you know, I respect people for trying to sort of cash in on a obviously what's a big fad, but how can you reinvent a to-do list once one comprehensible app is out? I mean, how do you how can you change it? So I I mean just for for fun saying, I just started using to-do list and it does the job just fine. I mean, it syncs across all my devices and it's a to-do list, you know, what can you say about it? I mean, so uh so that's that it's a perfect example, yeah, so I wish if app developers out there are listening, try to make something new and exciting. Don't just make the old boring stuff, you know. We don't need more flash card apps, I think. That's just a personal opinion anyway. Um so with all that said, let's move into the to the next the next level. We keep going to the next level, which is amazing.

Oh, I think that's why. Okay. Hanging Mario Brothers.

Yeah, the the language learning uh duo of course. Um so the next level we just talked about how you started a whole new part of your business. And I'm sure a lot of people out there are very inspired by that because they see there are a lot of opportunities. Um and now you're sort of taking it a step further and you're producing your own content, as you mentioned a few months ago. Can you talk about the process of going from let's say blogging and doing videos about language learning to suddenly actually offering your own products in the form of courses and uh yeah, talk about the process of your courses as well. You started with uh an English course uh last year, right?

I did. So yeah, that's another very interesting sort of transition, I suppose, because uh you you go from face-to-face to online and then you go from that online by the hour to the sort of more passive side of things where you're reaching more students. Um and it is very interesting. It took me a long time because I knew that it was a part of my business I really wanted to build and so I wanted to do it right. And I know we've said a lot today, you know, if you want to, um, I can't remember what it was we said earlier, if you want to start a blog, it might have been just just get started and if you want to teach an iTalkie, just get started. But I felt with online courses that was my I I didn't want to just get started. I wanted to do it right and it took me a long time to find the right platform to to host the courses. You know, do you go for a like a plugin on your website? Do you go for hosting on a new platform? Do you go for hosting on something like um Udemy or Udemy, however you want to say it, that takes a big percentage and is slightly pyramid in my opinion, but that's another story. And and so, you know, there's all these choices of where to host. All these choices of what content to include and what content is most valuable, what people most um uh relate to and learn from. How much do you include for how for what price? And it is it was a mind field and it took me, I first had the idea for the English course, like the very first sort of lightbulb moment if you like, of, oh my goodness, this is going to revolutionize my business. This is going to change everything. Um in the summer, probably July 2000 and it's weird now because we're already in the next year. So July 2014. Okay. So I suppose not long after we spoke, I guess.

Yeah, when you're you know, in the coming well, when people listen to this, the course will be out, of course. Which is good. And um, just uh if people want more information on the courses, I've made a little page on actual fluency just for, you know, a few screenshots of what's going on and what you can expect. And we'll be including a little bonus there if people want to sign up uh through me. So that's actualfluency.com/lindsay. And that's with an A. I guess that's uh you said that...

Yeah. It's all the letters that you wouldn't expect basically.

You can say.

So...

Why.

L I N D. There's a D in there. Who thought? L I N D S A Y.

There you go. And uh that's where we're that's where we'll collect all the information and uh and sort of give people a little more, I guess an extended preview of uh what you just said here just so they can see for their own eyes what to expect. Um so, wow, that's incredible. It's such an a comprehensive course on phrasal verbs and um, actually I didn't even think about phrasal verbs until until you showed me this course because for me it was just a part of learning. I mean, I never really consciously learned English, so for me I just sort of got them.

You were native, didn't you?

Yeah, exactly. I just sort of got them. I I actually doing school, I never heard the word phrasal verbs. Um so that was many years of schooling. But and then I started to see people from uh countries that are really hungry for English, like Brazil, Russia. People are like, how do I learn phrasal verbs? And I'm like, what do you mean? What is the phrasal verb? Why why do you need to learn phrasal verbs? I mean, don't you just say them? I mean, what's to learn? And then I did a little bit of searching and man, I found a lot of people looking for how to learn phrasal verbs. And so, so that explained the the whole thing and uh, you know, if you're learning English out there, and I I know a lot of people listen to this podcast as a as a practice for English listening and uh I apologize in advance. But um now you also have another way to improve your English, which is Lindsay's course, which you can you can find more information at actualfluency.com/lindsay. Uh we'll put together a little special bonus for you if you're interested in that. That's going to be amazing.

That's a very good question. Um, I I tell you and this links actually a lot to the new course. The new course is called successful self-study and it's based on my degree. And my degree wasn't just a standard degree. I studied with the Open University, so it was six years part-time distance learning, which at the time I thought, yeah, it's fine. Part-time. I'll be fine. You know, when I first started. And over the years, I kind of got better and better each year with each course. I took like 10 courses over the six years. I got better and better with each course at managing my time and uh getting things done, getting the assignments in on time. I know I always got them in on time. Um but, you know, at at getting everything done better. And I think that was a big help. That was I started with that a couple of years before I started the business. Um, so that was a big help from the start in terms of being organized and being ready and um, being productive, I guess. Because I had this huge part of my life that had to be that way. Otherwise, I wasn't going to get my degree and it was going to be a waste of time and effort and everything else. So, I think that was a huge help and that is why I created the course because from from there, I then it was like a springboard to the business. And then it was a springboard to learning languages on my own outside of the the course, outside of that study. Um, and I think they go very well hand-in-hand in terms of having your own business and and having to be productive and learning a language and having to be productive and manage your time effectively and set goals and everything like that.

Yeah, that sounds cool. The the non-negotiable is one of the key words for for my 2016. And it's tough because I I don't know which personality type this is, but I I am very good at keeping external expectations, but I'm extremely bad at keeping my own.

Obliger. Obliger, yeah.

Sounds sounds sounds true. You know where I'll I'll over, well, I'll do above and beyond for everyone else, but for me, I'm I can just be like, oh, I don't want to do that.

Yeah.

So so it's it's it's funny. Um, I have I have heard of Gretchen before. Uh, she was um on the school of greatness podcast, which I listen to occasionally. And she gave a little kind of a I guess a cliff notes version of what she's basically found out in the last many years of looking into happiness. And I I don't like putting people into boxes like that, but it's interesting to at least hear the different um uh versions or you know, those personality types because I think you can also be a little bit of everything, but you know, you definitely...

Yeah, I think this there is some crossover in there is.

You usually conform to your own kind of stereotype or however you want to be seen or however you see yourself and what you believe is what becomes true, I think. So, you know, the programming yourself is extremely big topic that I've looked into in the last year or two and it it's it's scary how much I mean, how what we can what the mind can basically tells us of crap and we'll believe it. And uh we need to really work towards changing that. There are so many limiting beliefs and I mean, I don't know if it's just me, but, you know, something like how can I even have a website? I mean, I don't I haven't learned any languages and stuff like that. You know, there's all these kind of doubts and and and feelings and what I've definitely found out a lot in the last two years is that a lot of it is just crap your mind is putting up in in a defense because you're you're challenging the status quo of your own life. You're sort of saying, I want more. I want better. And the people around you are saying, ah, don't worry, just get a job and just, you know, just have your mortgage and, you know, go out in the weekend, just have this. But a lot of the people are listening to this podcast, they want a lot more because it's so unusual to want to learn languages. And I just feel that mindset is just amazing. Um but man, are we good at putting up uh barriers uh to I guess our own success. Um just, you know, how how how we how might I servant of this and uh how can I sell things? I mean, I don't know if you had that problem, but some some people are very resistant to the idea of selling stuff because they just don't. I mean, why would people buy my stuff? But the reality is you're providing massive value. So that's why they should buy it, right?

And it's you like that's something else that's that's uh quite hard. It's like they're buying it because it's you, you know, like they they they want that information from you because they've read your blog, they've watched your video, they've they've downloaded your your your free content that you've given and and they're like, oh, I like this. I like the way this person shares this. And that's not going to be for everyone. Like my course isn't going to be for everyone that wants to learn phrasal verbs, you know, someone else's course might be better for Jim and Jim would not just not get my course. And you know, that's absolutely fine because you don't go you don't go to buy a new pair of trainers and see one pair in the shop and say, well, that's going to be the one. You go there and you see the the range of trainers and you think, that one is nice and I can appreciate that it's nice, but it's not for me. That one, I do not like. And that one, I love. And you can you know, it's the same, it's the same thing, isn't it with with with sort of selling and and and kind of promoting yourself, I guess. But it's hard to see it in that same way.